i will get into trouble over this but here goes

here in england most pumps have two ended hoses on there booms you would be hard pushed to find a single ended hose for off the boom work this because most pumps in england have to double up as diffrent size pumps when your size is not needed my self included i drive a putz 52-5 if i havent got any 52 work they send me to next size down and so on right down to a 24 at a push i try to go 5" all the time if i can but not allways posaball but with a 5 " rubber with two ends if your doing a 600meter pour and you need two rubbers to reach the first 30meters you can just put on the reducer and two 4" rubbers untill your off the boom and 5" who wants to pump 570meters turough a 4" rubber ore when your on the fith floor how do you bring the boom down with a single ended hose and stop the concrete runing out if you havent got a squeeze valve with a double ended hose you can clip a blank end cap on to stop the concrete running out i hear some saying kink and tie the end hose up to stop this but wont this weeken the steel in side the rubber making the rubber weeker when you wash out you get the slight dirty water running out off the rubber all over your clean boom cap and clip stops this single ended hose you cannot do this you could not water wash over here i most concrete is boney and your on a winner just getting your sponges back some times so there you have it in england once were are out off the gate in the morning your on your own if you arive at the site and your to big ore to small you have to get on and over it i must be the only 52 in the world that carrys six steel pipes and 5 rubber pipes just in case of the job in the afternoon is a 24 job and your the only pump finished and you got to go most of are pumps do two jobs a day and with the concrete supply the way it is you might not get to your second job till 4-5oclock in the evening most of your pumps if not all off them are spotless and shiney we all try to keep are pumps as cleen as we can but with the english weather one day sun one day rain one day hard frost so please dont rub it in how clean your pumps are come to england and try it you wont like it!

Art good post, hell even if you stood the boom up on end and sucked back a bit and took you tip hose and had it on the deck or ground next to you when you take the system off and in less than 5 minutes you have your tip hose on and all is good

Well greedy you jumped in the pool. lol

I know companies that have 20 pumps and do 60 jobs a day and they do not allow two ended placing hoses. The reason for that is becouse of the number of people who get hurt. I hope you never find out why you should never use a two ended hose my friend.

TIME IS MONEY BUT KILLING OR INJURING SOMEONE IS MORE MONEY!! NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT FOR TH EREST OF YOUR LIFE. I HAVE WHIPPED NOZZLE MEN WITH SINGLE END WHIP HOSES AND I FEEL BAD ENOUGH AS IT IS. I CANT IMAGINE WHAT I WOULD FEEL LIKE IF I HIT HIM WITH A DOUBLE ENDER. DONT BE STUPID BE SAFE IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MORE MINUTES EACH DAY, BESIDES IM SURE ALL OF YOU OTHER OPPERATORS GET PAID THE SAME WAY I DO,.... BY THE HOUR NOT THE JOB, TAKE THE TIME TO BE SAFE.

WELL ALL I CAN SAY IS PEOPLE ON THIS SITE SEEM TO LIVE IN THE IDEAL WORLD AND NOT THE REAL WORLD, I'M WITH YOU GREEDY!!!!!!!!!!!  1 2 3 4 I DECLARE A 5'' DOUBLE ENDED WAR!

 the reason for so called hose whip is because of num nuts mixer drivers that cant engage the brain cells to keep the hopper full as its a hard job pushing that level forward or back secondly flat out pump drivers who want to be home befor they get there you wont see me with two mixer trucks on the back of my pump i get paid by the hour i dont pump flat out so you all say if i do a slab that i have to put on six pipes to reach and it was five bays wide i break back to the boom i have to take of rubber and put on single ended rubber then stck out boom take of single ended rubber put on double ended rubber then put out rest of pipes then break back to of the boom them change rubber again a further four times? i would be told next time you do that we will use anouther pump company and that company would use a double ender any way i thought this was www. concrete pumping.com not www.ideal world .com

www.idealworld.com - good site. They care about their co-workers.

WELL GREEDY YOU REALLY ARE A STUPID SELFISH OPPERATOR! I REALLY HOPE YOU DONT HURE ANYONE BUT IF YOU DO I WILL BE THE FIRST TO SAY AT LEAST YOU HAVENT BEEN WARNED. WITH YOUR ATTITUDE IM SURE YOU WILL WORK YOUR SELF OUT OF A JOB SOMEDAY. IM GLAD YOU ARE IN THE UK AND NOT IN THE STATES BECAUSE THATS LESS LIKELY WE WILL EVER WORK TOGETHER. I WILL PRAY FOR YOUR POUR CREWS SAFTY WHEN YOU ARE TO LAZY TO CHANGE YOUR HOSE OUT FOR THE PROPER WHIP HOSE. GOOD LUCK.

Well here it is again. I am not even going to tell you my opinion on this subject again. All the main players are here and they should know how I stand on this subject.

But my question is why does discussion on this subject all ways disintegrate into personal attacks. If this subject is so important no one should have to attach someone personally because he does not agree with you.

We sure spend a lot of time on this issue. Everyone has his or her strong opinion on why they do it their way.

CAUTION, curve ahead – reduce speed to 35 mph

So what do you do?

I must say that if no one else is close to me and I have been around this curve before; I will use what has worked in the past as a guide to my speed. When there are other people in close proximity, I slow down to the posted speed. I do this because (1) I don’t trust others with my life freely and (2) So I don’t hurt someone else. Life is full of these choices; we see them all day – every day. This is just one more of those choices.

Is 5 min’s of your time a good exchange for someone else’s safety?

You choose … then live with the result.

well art all i can say if people walk along and bang their head into the double ended rubber then more fool you. the average male is 5ft 8 , so wot are you doing hanging an end pipe off the deck at that height to walk into the pipe??????????

oh yeah art its just me who is the careless one at south coast. i use a double ended hose because i choose too. i think of the safety gang the way they think off me! ie, when the pour is finished and i still have an hour to clean out pump on my own in the dark (especially in the winter) where do you think the concrete gang are!! i'l tell you, they'l be in their vans half way home before they even think off me. I'l b left on site on my own to wash out, god knows wot could happen to me while washing out, i could slip and knock myself out and no-one would know until the next morning on site and i could of bled to death, so over here in england you look after number 1! tough shit what anyone else thinks! what ever is easiest for me works. and i dont care if thats using a double ended hose or not, i'l put an end cap on because i have no squeeze bag, just so concrete doesnt  fall on pump or anybodys head whilst bringing off slab! so safety or not i dont giv a shit!

          GAME OVER!

I think this is a great discussion and I don’t think it needs to get as personal as it is but I think that the markets were it is acceptable  to use two ended hoses have not seen enough injuries or deaths yet from two ended hoses and that is why they do it.

 I know the Pro companies, the ones making money, the ones ran by business men, companies who are concerned about the bottom line like Berkeley Concrete Pumping,  Brundage Bone, CF&T, Central Concrete pumping and many many others would never let their operators use two ended hoses.

I also believe if you used a two ended hose and cut a guys head off that you would never use one again. So why don’t you just not use one now before you have more experience on the subject.

The reason this is even a topic is because two ended hoses are very unsafe, even a hose designed not whip does not have a end on it.

Nobody is giving you a hard time because you think differently, they  are concerned for the safety of others and for the reputation of our industry.

Just think about it, for those of you who like to play Russian rootlet you will always loose the game at some point.

• all it takes is a brain fart wrong way on the stick the hose will swing some times enough to swing high enough to hit a finisher near the end of a slab smoothing the edge broken nose knocked out cold maybe coma if he gets out of the hospital with all motor skills he might come looking for some justic a law suite every companys night mare yea a rubber ended hose will swing as well but with out the 5lb hammer on the end

The Folks who know me here know what my opinion is on this topic. I do have a question though, why are you guys using 5" hoses all the time. I rarely put one on the end of my stick.

3

10-4   3  

rarely here too...

gees again... you guys bicker to much. Just tell them why its unsafe, what can happen and hopefully they choose to think about the people around them and the consequences they would have to face. Calling someone out doesnt do anything but piss them off and make them do it more, just because they can. And like 3 said, why are you guys using 5" hoses, I bet if you used a 4 or a 5 to 3 your hoseman would like you alittle more, it would be an easy day after pushing a 5" hose around. anyways hope you all have a great and safe weekend.

to many things come out of mixers to use 4" reducer on boom ...nothing like pouring a deck and having to repetedly stop and clear big chunk of concrete out of reducer....looks like making it easy on the hose man just made me look stupid ....no thanks.....most state mixes wont go through 4" anyway

I guess things are just different around the globe. I have never had any trouble with any Pump mix through 4" Tip hose here in Bay area. I am not saying I have never plugged in my 5-4 reducer. So what do you do when you need to use a 3" tip hose ? Dont they plan ahead for mix designs ?

Sounds like Lots of stuff getting through the grate... The Ready mix companies here dont want fins, chunks,rebar, etc. coming out of their trucks... as they get back charged for that. been a few lawsuits too.   But yes sometimes it happens things get through the grate. Its not perfect out there !

I do use a 5" rag here and there , I just noticed that alot of folks.. thats all they use.

3

90% of the time i use 5". when i used to have a cifa and a sermac pump if had  a 4" pipe on the end of the boom and had to pump 100 metres plus of concrete, when come end of pour to wash out pump 9 times out of 10 there would be build up around the ring inside of the s valve.and it would take big beating bar to get it out and more time washing out, and when your 2hrs plus drive away back to the yard thats the last thing you want, so i have got used using 5" most ot time. Now i operate a new schwing s42sx and i dont get the build up problem with the schwing so will use it more if the hose man requested it but most times they dont get choice if we know which company are supplying the concrete. over here our concrete is normally tends to be shite and it bleeds and sumtimes blocks up in the reducer. i remember only pumping a 200meter slab and i blocked up 4 times during the pour so i put the 5" pipe on in the end. not only that you get stupid mixer drivers that wash out in the hopper and it causes blockages in the reducer, its just easier to use a 5" over here. but WILL USE 4" pipe if necessary. Oh by the way bob its Gordon Brown in charge of the UK now, Tony Blair went months ago.

It was the only pic that I could find. ;~)

Hey sccp jamie thanks for filling us in, most of the guys here on this site have no idea whats its like to pump concrete in the UK. People always assume its just like here in the states. I am glad your letting us know. I love hearing what its like over there. I know Concrete and Concrete Companies differ greatly here in the states so it makes sense that would be the case even more over seas.

Anyway thanks for putting up with us.

Todd.

hey 3 we  never use a 3" on the boom any thing different than 3/4" will cost the contractor more money and as for back charging ....thats someone on the job usually venting they pay for the concrete or they dont get more.....mix companys dont just roll over and pay for lost time like that all they have to do is not send them their lein wavers or lein the job that will make um pay 

whats a 5" rag ?

5" rag is a one ended 5"hose. I've been pumping for 14 years, mostly commercial with some shack work, and have only used a 5" once. It covered the laser screed with mud and had the hose man begging for a smaller hose. On big jobs I use a 4.5". My standard hose is 4" rag, I do carry a 3" rag as well in addition to spares and such. I'm in Monterey, CA and we pretty good concrete here.

Hey greedy,what's the material like over there?.Is it all crushed or you have natural river rock?.Hows the sand?.

I know in the mountains west of me there's nothing natural,well except for alot of rock that needs crushed.

Remember when LGE in Summit county had those swell 3" rocks... not crushed like they should have been. ;~)

everyone is talking double 5's but whatabout these reduction hoses down here its far more dangerous running a red. hose i have ran a 5"double ended hose for 20 years not 1 problem,ran reduction hose 3 days 2 hose whipping incidents,not saying i'm not pushing my luck ,but im gonna take my chances with the non reduction hose,I figured Bob would be all over these reduction hoses but I have not seen it being a issue,just me but if that hose is whipping end or no end what ever is in its path is in a lot of trouble,and usually if it makes it thru your 5" pipe the chances of it making it thru a 5" hose naturally is greater than it making it thru a 5 to 4 1/2 hose.I know i will be hearing from Bob ,but I welcome his insight on both issues,if one needs to go they both need togo,just my opinion.

welcome the insight from over seas,not the attitude,how bout a good ole american ass stomping,because the i dont give a shit attitude gets people killed,and over here you don't pump concrete very long,you'd be bagging groceries somewhere,so you better keep your i dont give a shit attitude across the water,i run a double ended hose,but i give a shit,and i,m a safe operator with a unblemished safety record.but i cant always do whats easiest for me because the crew may be assholes ,and not care about me but its my job to be a little more professional than the placing crew so it is your problem whether you like it or not.agree with your opinion,just not your attitude,remember professionalism and safety 

Yeah Bob,I'm still seeing a therapist over those days.Did you know they have pumps now,was up there maybe 10 years ago and it pumped great.

Graig,kay and the rest up there really turned things around.How I miss those great people.

pudg2

Something we may not hit on hard enough is the fact that you must slow your pump down with a reduction hose.

If you are pounding it in the slab, you are better off with a straight hose.

   for all you people over the pond the concrete here in uk to sum it up in one word crap!i the same as sccp jamie come from the portsmouth area here we have quite a few concrete companys all with diffrent blends of materail.most sites these days use a design mix which some one sat in a lab has designed the sand vareys from fine to very coarse stone vareys to from sea dredged to land based ,lime stone and crushed granite you never get one mix the same mostley looks like stone and dirty water concrete is so course that it knocks out boom pipes quickley i only got 50thousand meters through my putz 52-5 i see vasa is using a short 5-4 reducer you could never use that over here youll be unblocking more times than youll be pumping with it as for a 3" reducer and rubber good luck!!!! no one carys one not unless the site orders one then youll only pump 10mm concrete through it thats why most pump drivers use 5" when they can also most sites want you to pump it a dry as you can most days your pump will be running at 200bar with the oil turned down to a least number4-5 then the boom is bouncing so you have to turn the oil down further to get a happy medium its not all roses over here i can tell you

Places like; all of California, Seattle, Washington, Denver,Colorado and spots around the country have gravy concrete. Other places have just what you describe - crap!

If you put a 3 - 3.5 - 4 inch hose on the end of your boom here in Atlanta......... you had better slow your pump down to 1/4 speed and get ready to take off the reducer and empty out the rocks. We have the same stuff you do. And yes I get to wonder about the guys that have never left the nest asking "Why don't you run a 3" tip hose?"

UK - another problem we have in the UK is a 'north/ south' divide.

Most jobs in the 'north' of the country refuse the option of 5" hoses - (mainly due to splatter!), therefore 4" hoses are the norm.

In the 'south' it tends to be the other way, with 5" being the preference - this historically came about due to the poor quality of concrete that was being produced in that area some years ago, which was causing huge blockage problems in 4" pipework/ hoses.

We are trying to educate the laying gangs though, and once tried, they are tending to ask for 5" all the time.

One thing I would add, is that generally, blockages mainly occur where there is a size reduction in the pipework - therefore, more chance of blockage and hose whip on a 4". Where a 5" hose is used, the chance of blockage is much much lower, as the boom pipework is 5", therefore no size reduction - hence double ended 5" hoses are acceptable, but not the ultimate recommendation.

What size is boom pipework on American/ rest of world pumps? Is it bigger that 5"?  

both hose whipping were with the pump turned down to about 70 yph and it was a 5 to 4 1/2 hose which putz was sending out on all there new pumps in 06 the 2nd time was a .20 cell pumping about 1400 rpm with the volume control on 3 1/2 not saying in georgia with the granite its not a good idea,just with our aggregates and mediocre concrete,there safety concerns,and the post about operations manager telling you what size hose, to run how fast to pump,I have operators,good operators thats their decision to  make whether they run 5 or 4 if they need 4" they'll run it all of our trucks carry them if they don't we run 5".I could see me getting told how to do my job everyday by op manager,his job should be managing not babysitting, if the operator can't make the decision on what size hose he needs to run he shouldn't be running with the big dogs ,let em go play with the puppies.

Reply to Alan1

Hello Alan

Talking about 'off the boom' hose use.

I agree that pulling 5" hoses around the ground would be asking too much, as would the requirement to lug 5" steels around!

pudg

When you are there you make the call... that is for sure!

A 20 cell is an ass-kicking monster. You don't realize how fast you are putting out the crete. ;~)