how common a practise is it to lift the boom out of the cradle to wash the hopper out without employing the outriggers?

22 years operating booms and only today i was told it is dangerous to lift the empty boom out of the cradle, even though the ground is level within a degree or two, to wash out the hopper without using the outriggers.

i only hope this agent does not start pedling machinery fitted with OSS. flat stick, one degree up hill, holding valve says no way bozo i am out of here. agent says read item 13 on the plastic sticker on the water tank, ha what a joke!  way too many clowns in this industry.

be honest guys, who lifts it and who tucks it away and covers it in shit?

Aren't you the guy with the dumped-over pump?

yes bob, i am.

in the past when training people i dont teach them this if they want to do it later its on them.i had a guy tell me about a year ago he looked in the mirror while driving and saw the boom was stil up.

but kneerick, do you do it?

One of the things I dislike is when the operators with a little experience teach the new Operators bad habits.

We have a company policy and in the training of every new guy we teach  that if the boom comes out of the cradle to washout , the rear outriggers must be out and down.

The reason is twofold.

First; it is Safer

Second: It helps to keep the Concrete Splash from washing out off the outriggers which is important to us.

I can say I know personally an operator that had his boom up driving and took out a bridge.To directly answer your question,yes I have.

 2IC

Have I ever done it? Yes.

As a matter of regular operation, the outriggers are out & down.

The problem I always had was that I was a mechanic too. I used to dream about all the components that could fail. So I got into a defensive posture about every phase of pumping; and it worked well for years and years.

no actually i dont and you would know this if you saw the splatter on my boom

I have to agree.  If the boom is out of the rest the outriggers need to be deployed.  If nothing else it is a reminder to the operator that the boom is still up.  There are products that will clean the concrete splatter off the boom and they are a lot cheaper than a life or having to replace a pump.

2IC

i see it every day.  there a communil wash out yard for off site wash outs to all pump outfits and i have not seen an out rigger down to this day. personnely i do lift my boom if i am on level ground.  if it aint level, rigger out and down.

just dont forget about your outrigger. 

ShortStik

And your cautionary note is part of the problem.

Develop a system and stick with it. If you put the outriggers out and down EVERY TIME you will not need to try and remember IF they are out and down. You will know. If you deviate from a normal procedure to do the job correctly it may be time to alter your procedure.

it is a dangerous practice that most of us do everyday without giving a second thought,the chances of swing brakes failing or really not in your favor if its mechanical it will break or fail,so when you go to washout your outriggers should be down if you're going to lift the boom ,and I am guilty of not doing this in the past but like most good operators I still learn new things everyday and incorporate them in my routine ,

i hear you bob,  and i ve learnt the best routine is a walk around before gettin in the cab.

Granted, You take a chance anytime the boom comes out of the cradle....cleaning up, you take the chance of the boom swing...especially if you fold up on ant type of grade and there is back pressure against the cradle. But everyone has had an ass puckering experience. Glass houses. I've had operators on big panel pours, move down a million sq ft slab with the boom fully extended flat off the back of the pump with only the tip folded up. Seems until the "it'll never happen to me" actually happens, guys will continuously press their luck.

Duh! Who the hell likes concrete splatered all over your outriggers. Its like crap'n all over your own legs. I lift her up when its "Bar" time. Out & Down or Down & Out. It takes 12 seconds each outrigger,

Ya Gotta Love Bob! No advice, No words of wise wisdom. " AINT YOU THE GUY WITH THE FLOPPED OVER PUMP?" I love it, Pump-On Bob 

It is more cool to be safe than it is to have an accident. And your buds have less ammo to use to shoot at you.

73.8% of the safety rules may be broken 63.1% of the time with only 20.9% bad stuff happening to you………… right?

Any way you figure it, any method you use to compute the odds of having an accident; the bottom line is the same.

Here is a guy that has been operating a machine his entire life. And the odds just now caught up with him.

They will catch up with us all unless we do it right.

Is it OK to raise your boom to wash out?

Sure, right up to the day when it isn’t

oh bob, you old fox, your the perfect operator. 32 years in the game, yeah sure i have seen a lot, i put this down to experience as with a whole heap of other things, faulty check valve on a rack and pinion slew, so be it.

what would be your opinion  when someone experiences a faulty check valve on a vertical outrigger ram whilst under full load? my guess, not enough water in the water tank (counterweight) to take the load off the valve, haha , you go champ, have a nice day.

The truth of the matter is that I was allowed to stop playing before the odds caught up with me. SIMPLE!

It is EXACTLY like a slot machine. You play and play and win some... and if you quit while you are ahead YOU WIN!

If you keep playing, with out adhering to the safety rules ALL THE TIME the mathematic certainty is that you will sooner or later LOSE!

There is NO OTHER OPTION.

The only way to win in pumping concrete is to play the safe way 100% of the time......... or quit while you are ahead.

I am not the best operator that ever was; I am the guy that did the math and is trying to get the word out to those that have not.

just want 2 say i am a proud boom lifter. would rather have someting fail IF something is going too fail there and then rater full stick out.

It's strange how we learn from others mistakes,but that's how we gain experience.In this case a fluke has happend,a costly one.If one can remember the photo's it was a pump operators wash out heaven.My only thought would be >>

With 2300 on board,just how many really learned from this?

My Best

That is truly the question

hi everyone

I never did raise the boom for washing. the boom gets dirty? yes it does and thats way there is a pressure washer at the shop.

there is a reasone why the operator raise the boom to wash. so it wont get dirty. An operator that deploy the reger to raise the boom and wash.

1-is responsible and cares about the pump and doesn't want it on its side.

2- doesn't get the boom dirty.

3- saves him self time and don't have to stay the extra time to wash the boom at the shop on a friday.

An operator that dosen't deploy a reger to wash is:

1- Knows the risk if he doesn't deploy reger and still do it anyway. not responsible.

2- does not care about the boom being clean, just doesn't want to get it dirty so he doesn't have to wash it.

3- still saves him self some time and doesn't have to stay the extra time at the shop on a friday.

Now that everybody knows the risk, and seen it on pics and videos. why still raise booms with no regers.

some maight say well I have been doing this for a long time now and no problem. Well for taking that kind of risk I hope you have the kind of money to replace the damage to a dumped over to the side boom pump like bob said.

thats only my opinion.

best regards

mohd i guess youve never seen jun-jin 37z, concord 60rz where the boom has to be out of the cradle to lift the grill.  when i was operating roll n folds, there was never a need to lift the boom to washout.  i operate a concord 32x and i cant even lift the hopper cover with the boom in the cradle and i still splatter my boom when its out of the cradle.  for me its not about keepin the boom clean (there are chemicals for that)  its so i can lift my cover to lift the grill so i dont have to jack hammer everyday.

hi all, i am reading and taking it all in. yes bob, you are right, might be time for a change of routine. for years i have thought that the mechanics and engineering of a machine where tailor made to be operator and personal friendly (safe). i have never owned nor operated a self slewing boom before, it's a whole new ball game.

i am thinking about buying a spider boom and mounting it on my ute, you know, give the middle man a miss.

I make it a rule to do this. Yrs back i was washing out without the outrigger out and my hammer hit my joystick... Almost went over. Here do this youll be just fine it only take a second to be safe.

I have seen, with my own two eyes, booms swinging for no other reason than gravity told them to find the lowest point. This happened twice, two different makes of pumps.

I was a believer after the first time. My belief was reinforced by the second.

If nothing ever went wrong, ever, you would not need any safety rules; you could close your eyes and stumble through life happy as can be.

Wake up and smell the hydraulic fluid !!!

Bottom line, like it or not: the boom slewing was not your fault; the pump tipping over was.

The reason that the outriggers should be out and down is so that when something/anything stupid happens nothing bad happens because of it.

That is why we call it safety.

NUFF SAID

sorry mrs smith, your son is dead because my boom brake was broke and it hit the power lines but my outriggers where out and down, sorry mrs smith, he was a nice kid...............................................................nuff said.

Did you get Johnnie Cochran to help you with that logic?

It sounds like a classic use of the famous

Chewbacca defense

Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense against Chef in South Park.

The Chewbacca defense is a fictional legal strategy used in episode 27 of South Park, "Chef Aid", which premiered on October 7, 1998 as the fourteenth episode of the second season. It is a form of Red Herring argument, used to deliberately confuse the jury.

I have had a boom drift while I was washing out on a 26m elba luckily I felt the wobble before it was to late,and here recently on putzs I have had joysticks go bad on the remote causing them to engage when not being used so this is the way to go alot of pumps you HAVE to raise the boom to washout PUT YOUR OUTRIGGERS OUT AND DOWN and you are covered ,boom swung into power line,you shouldnt have been that close especially washing out we never know when a machanical failure is going to happen so we have to prepare for the unexpected

bob, what would your thoughts had been of me if this had happened half way thru the job before or the job after, with legs down and out, and someone was hurt. what if it had happened to you?

sorry bob, i have not been into cartoons since i was a kid, i miss (ignored) your point, the same as pudg has missed mine, me being right or wrong is not really a issue that concerns me, that part should  never of failed on a machine with only 70 hours clicked up.

I am not capable of making a comparison or even understanding what one situation has to do with the other. They are totally unrelated scenarios. You sound as if you believe that you were performing some type of test and not simply operating with your boom up sans outriggers. As to what should and should not have happened; I am most wary of a new machine, especially until I change the hydraulic filters and see how good a job was done cleaning the components before and during assembly. At any rate; if the boom was up the outriggers should have been deployed as well. It matters not the age or number of operating hours.

As to how I would ‘feel about you’ if your boom took off and hurt or killed someone; there is much I would need to know. Based on that information I could come to have an opinion. In many cases you could be considered a casualty of the experience, in others the perpetrator. The certainty of the case here is that the boom was deployed while the outriggers were not – simple.

I answered this post against my better judgment. I won’t do so again.

Just let it go. You are not really interested in my thought process anyway.

Do what we all do………… learn and move on.

couldve,shouldve,wouldve if we all live by that, shit will happen, go with what you know and have learned ,if boom is deployed put outriggers down, as we all will, you will learn as you go, experience, mistakes make good operators as my dad said a hardhead will get you a softass so I am not ragging on you just my opinion ,should it have failed no, should your outriggers have been down,yes, sorry but the truth hurts but it also sets you free 

hey pudg are you saying if i operate a 42m i should never park with in 45m off power lines in case a machine is going to get a mind of its own.

 I was once told by an energy company thats the way it should be,we do not live in a perfect world I do when I washout steer clear of powerlines if the pump gets a mind of its own your in deep shit anyway ,no thats not what I was saying but when your washing boom up you should stay where if the boom swung it would not get into powerlines,while your operating its 17' you know that mr wibau

I beleive that after being in the industry for as long you have been, that if you dont realise that you need to allow for machine faliure in any aspect of the game to avoid problems that may arise from time to time, your a Tossor!!!!

Too bad if you killed some poor bastard because you were to lazy too take 5 seconds out of your busy schedule to deploy the rear outriggers while you washed out.

Its much better to get the pump home 10 mins later than not get it home and loose shit loads of money while its away getting fixed.

No-one to blame exept yourself id say.