Great idea but do you..

a, make every pump company double their labour bill and hope that  customer is wiling or even going to pay that extra 40% to cover it (also allowing for the fact that most account customers take 30 days plus to even pay, the company then has to stand this extra cost) or

b,half the original operators wages? , since it now takes 2 to do the job of 1

Do you also train operator no. 2 the same as no.1 ? a banksman does not have the qualification to drive a crane?? and cannot relieve him when required

Also most pumps run on a day/shortcab chassis which is small enough at times for one man let alone 2...

There are times when a second person is nice to have. Like during system pours or when pulling an all nighter so he can drive you back. Other than that a second person is not needed or even wanted most of the time.

I agree we need oilers

I personally think its a crying shame that we as an industry rid ourselves of the oiler. I personally think that anything over a 36 meter should have an oiler on every job. How many crane guys show up to a job by themselves? I think the only reason we got rid of oilers is because some guys were trying to compete and told the contractor they could do the job without an oiler and they would be cheaper because of it. The only way you could compete with those guys was to drop the use of the second man. I feel this has been a big mistake. I know of many operators who would dunnage up more if they had an oiler to help him. We all know the job would be safer, the equipment would be better taken care of and the owner would make a bit more money (if he got the job).

I do not believe the reason we got rid of oilers is due to the advancements of pump technology but due to competition.

Here is just an idea since we are all talking about the CPMA. How about the CPMA say that anything over a 36 meter can not be run without an oiler. Please, I am not trying to create a crap storm just chiming in. Do you guys think we would be safer? Less loss of life?

I had a second man on a 61m for a short time, he was constantly sleeping in the truck, and complaining all the time so after talking with the manager about this a few times, he was let go and not replaced. I learned how much fun it was to be 10+ floors up and have someone hit the e-stop instead of the horn letting my boom go 6 feet up splattering the draining mud all over the place, into countless eyes and pissing off entire crews because I couldnt do anything about it. Running up and down stairs/ladders just to pull it out.

The best pours I ever had involved a service rep on the back of my pump correcting slumps, backing trucks, scrapping chutes, watching for oil leaks, listening for strange noises and watching outrigger feet. He was all about helping things go smooth. Any pump operator lucky enough to work with BURT HARTLE knows exactly what Im talking about.

on a 55 meter or bigger I would agree, but on anything smaller than that is a waste. Now if I was lazy,hard of hearing, or just didnt know what it was like to have the mud stop flowing out of the tip hose, that would be acceptable. Do you know the costs involved in training a wanna be pump operator, insurance,work comp,especially if the wanna be is union.

With the economy the way it is, it's not easy to talk contractors into paying for one operator

No disrespect todd but if the operator is too lazy to get dunnage by himself, maybe he should be operating a crane.

No disrespect taken. I am just saying it would not hurt our industry to have a second man, it would just help it. Make it safer. Right now you can rent a 500,000 concrete pump for less than you can rent a bob cat. A second man is not a burden if everyone is using them. I can promise you that another pair of eyes on the pump is a good thing. Its also a great training aid. If a guy has to be an oiler for a year before he pumps just think of how much good that would do. Just thinking out load.

Believe me I dont mind if people disagree with me I like it, I learn things that way. I am often wrong and i respect healthy debate.

i think problems exist.  how bout an intercom system on the back of your pump to the ear on your head, walkie-talkie radio's ha ha.  but seriously, dangers do occur and it is a BIG part of our job to prevent them.  big jobs round here redi-mix companies are more efficient to provide a so-called "oiler", usually a guy with a little more so-called "upstairs" than many of their truck drivers.  but awareness is the key, money is the issue, safety is the goal, and grinder is tired.

Slinger488 

I can take you to places a 28m would scare you on set up.Don't get so confident that you make the big mistake.Pumps 36m and above really need the extra hand,it does.

It has nothing to do with a lazy operator,rather,everything to do with safety.That extra pair of eyes may just save your bacon one day.With the advent of radio remotes an operator can now get where he/she needs to be.However now the operator is often not in a position to see the pump.

MANY. y r u bragging about taking a 28m places that would scare him on setup.  sound like u headed in wrong direction urself. balls is one thing, stupidity is another.  bragging qualifies as the later.

The challenge is find a solution.  I just had a friends son get hose whipped.  He is not hurt too bad but it could have been a lot worse.  All of us 'old' school operators (Many can you remember that far back) used to be teathered to the pump before radio remotes came into use.  We developed a sixth sense that something was wrong, was it smell, hearing, vibration - a combination of all.  Now there are so many other distractions, customers wanting the operator at the end of the boom during the pour, cell phones ringing, everyone wanting to talk to the operator.  Someone needs to be at the hopper in control, backing up the trucks, watching the hopper, looking for oil leaks.  With proper training there is a lot the 2nd man should be doing.  Does not matter what size pump - trailer pumps to 23 meters to super booms.  One standard should apply to all. Period.  Safety should rule not egos or dollars.

The point was places such as Houston,La,where you drive a pump in and the groud moves 50' away.Yeah,I remember the senses,less people got hurt back then.As I said in the other thread,pump volum is a key player.They develop pressure way faster than yesteryear.

Unfortunatly those days are gone and a new breed of machine is here,ratings of 300 yph.One wants more safety? Cut the nuts out of the machines,way to much ego and temptation awaits.I'm not saying it's all the machines fault,common sense is getting hard to find today.

Someone needs to be at the hopper in control, backing up the trucks, watching the hopper, looking for oil leaks.  With proper training there is a lot the 2nd man should be doing.  Does not matter what size pump - trailer pumps to 23 meters to super booms.  One standard should apply to all. Period.  Safety should rule not egos or dollars

I agree,Unfortunatly the manufacturers/owners are always right.There has been great strides towards safety and more to come.The fact is hose whip will always be there and people will get hurt.A reduction at best is all we can hope for,this is a high risk job.

Another solution to some hose whippings is to make it a law that the tip hose cannot be smaller then the boom pipe.  If you have 5 inch boom pipe you need a 5 inch hose.  You want 4 inch then put on 4 inch boom pipe.  It is not just the introduction of air that causes boom whip - it is the combination of the compressed air once it hits the reducer.  I know it whips when there is no reducer but study the differences.   Safety first before egos and dollars.

Shall a company have atleast 3 pumps in every boom size then ? 3" , 4" and 5" depending if the pour need a smaller diameter on the endhose ?

I think the problem lies more in the training/ licencing system all over, you should have to to do time served on a size of machine before moving up, Start off on a line  then  to a 24 then 36 , 48 etc etc with special segments for high pressure machines , telescopic booms, rotary pumps.

Accidents have always happened with pumps, its just that now with the  internet sites such as this, and the fact that more is recorded now , everybody gets to hear about it.

A lot of operators have learned from hearing, and seeing mistakes posted on here,whether they are too proud to admit it or not. I learned a lot by of what not to do by veteran pump operators (laughing,and saying remember that pour) I'm sure everyone on here are good at what they do,it takes a special breed to run a pump. 

it takes a special breed to run a pump

yeppers

I dont think it would be a bad idea , but it will never happen, its hard enough gettin a extra man on a 52 and up, one man can do this job 95% of the time safely if he is experienced , isnt lazy , and pays attention to HIS job, not finishing concrete, running the hose, talking on a cell phone or texting, the other 5% is upper decks out of sight pours and such you need a experienced man ON the pump, but if you get a  unexperienced person that knows nothing about the industry and our profession its not much help, probably more of a safety hazard to himself and others than you wouldve been being a one man show, good idea ? yeah, but sorry its not gonna happen hell we cant get the customers to pay full price for a pump now and were talking about adding atleast another 30-40 dollars to the hourly rate, sorry but this is a mute discussion cause it aint gonna happen.

A lot of views on the subject - What's the solution.  There are alot of smart common sense operators out there so how do we solve the problem.  The sticker is a step in the right direction but we all know how many pumps do not have horns or stop buttons.  We also know that many pumps have their hopper grate and stop switches bypassed the first time they get moisture in them.

How many times have we seen ready mix truck drivers sit in their air conditioned or heated cab when weather is bad - they guess at how much is in the hopper.  What about front end discharge ready mix trucks?  Does anyone really think the driver will jump out to hit a horn or stop button.

There are a lot of good ready mix drivers out there that help operators by telling them when the out rigger is sinking, about leaks, letting them know when the hopper is low.  There is no operator out there than can say when he is running the remote 150 feet away from the pump that he running a safe pump.  Period.  Once the operator walks away from that pump and no longer has constant control, view, smell and feel of the that pump he puts everyond in danger.  Period.  If you are an operator that does have that control please let everyone else know how you do it.

The challenge to the CPMA, ACPA, and all operators is how do we solve the problem.

The impossible dream i'm affraid,just some ramblings

There are alot of smart common sense operators out there so how do we solve the problem.There are more not so common sense people out there.As long as this ratio is in effect,fat chance comes to mind.

The sticker is a step in the right direction but we all know how many pumps do not have horns or stop buttons.  We also know that many pumps have their hopper grate and stop switches bypassed the first time they get moisture in them.One would think the owners would stay on top of this,not the case.They are the 1st ones to cut corners on safety.Heck,I bet if the truth be known about current boom inspections it would scare you.

How many times have we seen ready mix truck drivers sit in their air conditioned or heated cab when weather is bad.It's a great place to hide,right? But then again they have the same trouble with help.Again not enough money for safety.

There are a lot of good ready mix drivers out there that help operators by telling them when the out rigger is sinking, about leaks, letting them know when the hopper is low.Another good reason for the second set of eyes,the oiler.

 If you are an operator that does have that control please let everyone else know how you do it.Prayer works best,oh please lord,let nothing stuipid happen to me today.

The challenge to the CPMA, ACPA, and all operators is how do we solve the problem.I could sugest making the pumps idiot proof,yeah right.The cpma is just trying to cover there own ass,well,and sell fancey machines for the money.The acpa could care less,the big owners have always controled them.

Moral of my story,MTBSW!!!

money talks,bullshit walks

I disagree with some of this how big a boom are you running to be 150' away ? 52 and up ? you should always have a oiler,period ! I say 42m and over, I run 36 and 38s and I stay in constant view of the pump and r/mix truck 99% of the time, the other is when I'm going over or in some tight place, the idea of having another qualified person is great, but who's gonna pay ? not the owners , not the contractors, so are you gonna take a cut in pay , I'm not , I have ran big booms with unqualified help and it sucks they have to be qualified to truly make a difference and qualified cost $'s that nobodies willing to part with rite now, so this discussion is gonna do about the same as those stickers, nothing because no ones gonna give it a second look and how many pumps wont have them on it 99%, and then how many r/mix drivers will actually have time to read it theyre way to busy spilling concrete on our pumps to read a sticker, maybe the cpma can send representatives to all ready mix companies and teach  them how to keep concrete in the hopper 99% of your problem solved, no stickers needed.