Why is it that there are some companies out there that have no sense and are willing to drop the hourly rate of pumps to early 1990 rates and are willing to give up travel time to get work.  Do they not realize that it will take just as long to get the rate back up when times get better and the only people that are winning at this game is the customer not the pump company!

It could simply mean a last ditch attempt to save it all.In this economy it's a crap shoot at best.For me,and my work I refuse to lower my ethic's.If I fail at least people will hear the roar in the clouds.

What I personaly beleive is worse than the guy lowering his price. When they  look you in the eye and swear they are getting top dollar LMAO! These guys stand out when you hear phrases such as this is the best year we ever had, Or they are working 8 days a week LOL.

Funny you brought this up I got a new price list from a competitor today, and compared it to one the is 25 years old. They are charging less now than they did then, I will try to post it if Todd can blank out the companies name.

northern pumper were are you located??

I am in northern ontario and just can't figure out how companies survive by doing all this price cutting.  Some of these companies are union as well and if the only way they can get work is by cutting prices and the companies that keep their prices at today's rate and providing a good service with good operators and equipment are on the loosing end.  It just boggles my mind how contactors see only the hourly rate and not the BIG picture!!!!

i know how you feel northern pumper were in the same boat im in sudbury!!!

well northern Ive seen it from both sides , when your bidding a job ,you have to get your numbers tight , so I understand the contractors position on the lower price getting the job , the trick is for us not to get so low, have everyone in the profitable range and whoever gets it makes money , if I was the contractor I'd play this game theyre playing theyre getting services at cost putting more money in thier pockets at our expense , who knew they was going into the concrete pumping business to put more money in a General Contractors pocket while we go broke.

I guess pudg has said it best.Yes,large comm projects do get prefered treament of sorts.That's when the pencils get real sharp.The smaller comm and res work it should all change.

I do love concrete and the people that work it,habbit I guess.I remember a quote from a superintendant,apex oil (copper mountain).I may be a whore but I don't have to be a cheap whore,his words not mine.

Well Super Why would your boss drop the price to what it is  as all of you are creating the problem as I and the old pumping company in your are were holding our own. Part-time owners will never help the situation We use to be two pumping companies in that area then came your part-time boss  then Nat. and Amh.  And I won't take any of my pumps out for 130 per hr  Obviously you guys don't realize the cost involved in keeping pumps in condition to work and be safe As you know your previous boss always had his pumps inspected yearly by CPR as do mine You can't keep pumps safe when you can't afford to pay for repairs or boom inspections If you guys keep working for that kind of money Maybe we should all get together and try set pricing

hey sunmas from what i am seeing the problem is two fold the part time owners with no clue and  his former employee who is working for Nat.  more the second than the first.  And you are right i am not taking my pump out at that rate either but super's old boss I heard and you have had some rate fighting over jobs and he won if you could say that nobody really wins  and they say they are sticking to their prices.  Not everything is as it seem or should be taken at face value depending on where it or whom it comes from!

where can i start? First id like too say Extreme your doing a good job you have good equipment!! as for nat. my boss has a personnal vendita with his former employee as for the price we DID not start it!!!we just made sure were lower then NAT.they will sink there own ship then end result its the operator and experience that builds the company and NAT does not have that.and dont know why you call us part-timers as we all saw we ALL started with just one pump.We all know theres not much work out-there right now all we are all hurting the only advantage we have is we stayed small at the momment so we can ride this recetion and giving the customer good care,good equipment and service.The end result we all know who brought all these companies here now we have too learn from his mistakes .plus i have nothing too hide you all know who i am and what im about and a phone call away!DAVE

Hey super dave what did you mean by we know who brought the guys in meaning nat and amh.  I think i know who you are talking about but am not sure.  What is this personal vendetta with your boss and nat I am pretty sure a price war is not the solution does your boss and the moron at nat understand how long it took to get the prices where they are and how long it will take to get them back to where they should be?  Hey sunmas how is your 52 working out?

Hey there Super and Northern Pumper

Sorry, I didn't mean to point fingers at the operators but to the owners including myself we should have sat down and try to keep the others out of the area as now everybody is trying to keep going when times are much slower than they were last year. As the 52M well it takes a bit of getting use to it and a few small glitches but will get things figured out yet  You guys can give me a call as I'm sure you do have my number

I can,t stay out of this one.  If everyone recalls in Ontario the redi mix association and low rise formers joined forces and came up with the job safe policy.  Backing up on ramps etc.   This policy opened the door for a whole generation of pumping outfits that knew nothing about the business.  So to get a foothold the first thing they did was drop prices to get customers.  The larger companies maintained their loyal customers especially I.C.I and started to fight back. So I get quite offended when I hear people complaining about price cutting when it was those same smaller outfits who instigated the fight.  As far as union companies and operators go we fought our asses off to become members included in the crane rental agreement.  The union at the time had no idea about pumps or pump safety. As an operator we were considered the lowest type of member.  Our input was ignored until these smaller outfits came along with accidents,injuries etc.  Now the government is being petioned to license us  and apprenticeship program.  Has anyone volunteered their new operarors to take this course, that is paid for from my dues.  And as far as these companies heading north did it occur to anyone that we were invited to the area.  At the time price was not the issue , competence was.  The price chopping started up there when a competent company with safety policies trained operators and a good track record, lots of backup of equipment.  I have lots more to say but I,m sure I,ve already offended enough people.  Ido apologise for that but thought you needed the opinion from someone who is fighting the same fight from the other side.

Hey  Granddad i could't agree more.  I am sure that everybody knows who I am and work for and that is why I am in northern ontario besides the fact that i live here in the great white north.  I had options to go to work for others here in the north and have had job offers since then as well from the same company.  But you said it best about why we are here and what is happening with the work and price situation.  For those dropping the price to the basement prices they are at it is only a matter of time before the customers get fed up with the unmaintained equipment and lack of quality parts such as boom pipe and elbows and etc.  I am sure times will change and things will be busy again and then we will see how things will come around to those who stuck to their guns on price and customer service and quality machines and operators that truly understand pumping concrete and all the safety that goes with it.  As for the apprenticiship program I  am sure that there are a few in sudbury that are operating pumps that maybe should talk to a BA and sign up they might learn something from the insrtuctors at the school.  I know those guys and they know what they are doing!

From what I understand, you don't need to be a member to take the course. Don't quote me on that though.  Point being is that course is safety oriented.  I know the instructors as well.  We all here have a tendency to puint fingers, call people stupid etc.  But has anyone here in Ontario stepped to the plate and said enough is enough.  Lets put everybody on the same playing field and see who comes out on top.  The companies that are complainig about pricing I don't hear them defending their own trainig practices and how they got to the level they're at.  Myself started as a helper and learned from some of the best operators in the business in my opinion and after 23 yrs. pumping I still call on these gentlemen for advice.  There are a lot of us out there need to get off their high horses and start improving the industry instead of whining about it.