http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms7cw0hLMIo

Good idea swinging an s bend at head height!

what a joke. I wonder if he is using the boom as a crane also.

Ahaa... Now I know why you all call it a double 90. It really is 2 90 bends!! Than I can understand the fuzz about it., That's dangerous because the crete kind of comes to a stand still in the first bend. We use 2 45 bend (so a double 45) Does the trick just fine and much much safer!!

I was speaking to a kid on a job site today who had the 90 clog! He said it felt like getting hit by a dump truck! blew his wrist out of his body! $9,000.

A lot of the time they will not put a gasket in the clamp of the double 90's , so they can turn it as they go around the wall......Oh yeah...nice to see them all wearing hard hats...Todd, your right..what a joke !!!

Mike Paul emailed me and here is what he said.

I posted that it was unsafe to use metal at the end of the hose. You can go to his video and post your comments. I believe that Mike Paul's ad makes us all look bad and hurts the safety effort.

Instead of ripping the guy and making comments and jokes about how they are doing things, why don't ya educate and go after the pump company in the ad ?? this guy may not know what is right and proper and nobody changed how things were being done from the old days either. Ive been around this business for 40 years since i was a kid and have seen many changes....remember the days guys would ride the ball on a crane ?? My last pumping job is what drove me from pumping cause i was told to do a job a certain way and don't complain....like using an 80' pipe suspended from a crane, that was built by a major pump company here in az....but nobody can say anything to them.... I really would think of how you(todd)wont allow the bashing of some on this site but you make comments on this....like the guy said....25 years....things change but we don't always know what unless were educated on it. all im sayin is if were gonna apply rules and such it applies to everyone and take em aside and teach, not ridicule....it could apply to this website....everythings ok until someone bashes a sponsor ???

If you go to the pump company you will get the same response... its not our problem its xyz.... the customer asked for the bends, been doing it for 25yr no problem, if we dont do it then they will use soomeone else etc etc etc etc...

Somebody stand up and say ok we're not goin to do this.

There are 3 sides to every story,the contractor,the pump company,the funeral home.The contractor is or should be aware of the dangers.It is now HIS choice to use it or not.This is a campaign to inform both sides of the danger,they have the right to refuse using this double 90.

You say go after the pump company,we are,through the contractor this time.Just say no.

murf 

Got me by a couple of seconds,I'd better try harder,grin

How could you not know that doing this is not ok ???

Do you get up every morning and put your head up your arse? I think common scence would tell you not to but its been a no no for a long time its not like its a new thing!

The fact that they don't use a hard hat etc doesn't say anything about how good job they do, only that they maybe take a bit more risk than others.

And yes.. Funny. Bashing sponsers is no go.. Can't even ask how the investigation of the sching collapse in dallas turned out.. But this guys get the full load just for a fckn hard hat and a double 90??? Come on guys....

schwing58 

If I sounded as I bashed this contractor,it was not intended.People that know me and my feelings about safety pretty much agree.In all these years I have seen some really bizar things happen.

As for the other thing,we may never know.We had 2 big boom main cly's failed.The manufacturer was on it faster than a speeding bullet,true.Service bulletens were issued to owners of that size pump for there records.So,if a cyl,link failed that's enough for me.

Around my house we don't are our dirty laundry in public,sorry

I didn't really mean you many. Your comment was not so bad.

Dipstick, I hate to keep calling you out dude, but double 45's aint any safer than double 90's.  What part of NO METAL ON THE ENDHOSE  do you not get?

One little backfire, and someones going to the emergency room or the funeral home.

what ever happened to the foundation of what every successful business was founded on??? GIVE THE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY WANT.. and then when the customer looks at you and spits his teeth out in the palm of his hand.... then give him a big I TOLD YOU SO... MAKE THEM SIGN SOME SORT OF INDEMNITY WAIVER AND " PUMP IT OUT"

Its ok mate. I've come to reallize that some people are just obsessed about this no metal on the end hose thing. I think its overreacted. So does every single pumper ive ever met. People also get hurt of other things but still do it. (like I said earlier, driving a car is more dangerous but you still get in your car every day, take your kids with you so you make them run the risk to. )

There is only one way to poor concrete 100% safe and thats uhhh let me think... hmmm there isn't.

I am more focused on getting the job done instead of start winding at every job. And have only got loads of respect for that in the last 10 years. Never caused anybody a scratch...

And a double 45 is safer than a double 90. Maybe not safe enough for you but it is safer. Good luck with fishing and dont forget your lifejacket when you come so close to the water.  

Hi Dipstick ! Pleas tell Me why 2 90's are more dangerous than 2 45's ? I'am not a rocket scientists " just" a pumpoperator....

So if you get to a jobsite and the contractor says the only way to set up and pump my job is to pump off the

shortrigged side, that would be getting the job done?

If the same contractor said you had to boom over powerlines would that be getting the job done?

If the same contractor said you had to remove your tip hose and pump out of the last 90 would that be getting the job done?

If the same contractor said you had to set up very close to an excavated ditch not using the one to one rule would that be getting the job done?

I dont think anybody on here would ever do any of the things I mentioned, simply because there are rules and regulations in the safety handbooks that tell people this is unacceptable.

Its NO different than putting ANY steel attachment on the end of a boom pump tip hose.

You say you have 10 years experience in this business, either you have been extremely lucky or you haven't pumped very much concrete to have NEVER had a hose whip.

Because trust me, it WILL happen.  Maybe not today, but it WILL happen.

Remember, its always better to tell a contractor "Im sorry, I can't do that" than to have to tell his wife and children "Im sorry about your husband or father". 

if you wanna get scientific about it.. look at the law of propulsion. i have used a double 90 and yes... it has plugged. the only direction that the hose and double 90 went is upward when it came unplugged. because the pressure is being applied downward when it does come unplugged. i guess you can say i have been "lucky" or whatever word you wanna use. there wasnt that much pressure on it and i caught it before it the pressure spiked. if you are not paying enough attention to your pump and listening to it while its working while you have that double 90 on it.... you probably don't need to be running a pump anyway. i wouldn't have let the guy on the hose have it anywhere near his face tho. he would have to walk the wall.

hey SEED... you are about  to be crusified by the concrete pumping.com know-it-alls. can you tell us how ya feel about that??? anyways, i'm with ya.

Hey stick,where ya been on this one?

I not only loved the anogligy but support those statements.Kinda like going to the bank and telling them "I can't be broke yet,I still have checks left"

Only about 40.000m3 a year. Yea sure. 10 years of pure luck!!! haha. Think I have a better future in the gambling industry!

Ofcourse the powerlines is totaly different. To close to the edge not good. But what is wrong with removing your tip hose if that gets the job done??? Here I loose you again...

Its not like I do any crazy thing. I can be very strickt to customers to but if I know that when we do it a sertain way and we take it easy and every body uses his head and the risk in minimal than ok.. Lets get it done!!

You are correct, you are doing exactly what the rule books, the ACPA and all the pump manufactures stress daily.  If I didn't care about you or the people you work around I would not say a word. 

Dont take my word for it, call Putzmeister, Schwing, Concord, Sany, Reed or the ACPA and ask them if its ok to operate a truck mounted concrete pump with two 90's or two 45's on the tip hose.

Dont take my word for it anymore, but i'll bet you a six-pack of American beer against a six-pack of good Danish beer that I know the answer that you will get from the pump manufactures or the ACPA!

And MUDDY, we wont get into how many lawsuites your company has been involved in from doing stupid shit on a daily basis.  Remember, I used to work for your outfit many years ago and decided I didn't want to kill or injure people in order to "get the job done".

Ok. We know where we stand now on the double 90 thing. I know schwing doesn't like it. But some manufactureres also dont like the air cuff on the end hose. Lets not keep winding about it any more.  

I for example dont like to use a compressor to blow a ball through a long line to clean out. I find that very dangerous. The 12 BAR from the truck it self should do the trick and if not forget about it. But a lot of pumps get delivered with a compressor.

The manufactorers are very smart people that can make great machines. But in my experiance i've noticed that that doesn't mean that they also know best how to operate them. The man that has build the winning Nascar last year doesn't have to be a good driver for example.

But just wondering.. What was the problem with removing the end hose and pump straight from the last 90 bend??

I'll give you a very quick physics lesson.  Stand still with your hard hat on, let someone swing the tiphose into your body, head, or legs and see what it does to you. Maybe it will knock you down.  Now take the tiphose off the pump and at the same speed have the same guy hit you with the last metal section of the boom.  Please, after you recover or get out of the emergency room let me know the results.

Do they not teach physics or common sense in Europe anymore?

O yes we do. Thats why we don't schwing the end hose in to people. Maybe you should try that!! Helps a lot.

But why no answer on some of the interesting questions for a change??

Feel free to ask me any question you like and i'll answer it to the best of my ability.

you guys freakin kill me being so PARANOID. i have a feeling you let a job beat you before you even get out of the truck. i would also bet that you walk around the world with helmets and knee pads on. they make pills for that shit.

No. Sorry. I didn't read your answer good enough because I just cant believe what you say. So you want to say that you have so little control over your boom that you are afraid that you will schwing you tip section in to a persons body so fast that he has to go to the ER ?

Come on. IF there was a situation where you'd take of the end hose you would ofcourse let people take some distance and you would drive it very slow and carefull. Or can't you do that???

I feel sorry for your customers that they don't get an operator that can help them out when things get a bit tricky.

I have to wrap this up! I stopped using a double 90 sometime ago due to the education of Mr. Bob sanders, Concretepumping.com and the many operators who recognized the dangers and stayed on message. I as an operator took a lot of flack from customers  but listened to the message and continued to do the right thing and not use the " death 90 ". The one and only time I a customer convinced me to use it after I explained to him the dangers and my insurance company does not approve it clogged, smashed into the wall and the contractor said take it off and we have never used it again! We all got lucky that day! Steel on the discharge hose is dangerous! Keep it safe, do it right and do not use a double 90. Thanks for the professionals that stay on target you save lives in our industry!

Very wize Seed. Totaly agree with you. I would never put a double 90 on my hose. Use a double 45 instead. Much safer!!  It doesn't give that sideways movement when it plugs or 'whips'

But just wondering.. what DO you guys do when you have to poor like a weak foundation  in polesterian for example and the concrete has to fall gently ? Or is that the customers problem and you don't give a shit?

O yes. You know. I realized that when I walked out the front door I could be hit by a big truck or a huge hailstone. So now I never go out of the house any more. I let all my food and stuff be delivered by idiots that are supid enough to be out side trying to kill them selves every day!!! hahaha.

I do my icf with a 3" tip hose.

You see. Thats not any safer. More people get killed by hose whip than by use of double 45 for as far as I know. The use of a 3'' tip hose increases the chance on a hose whip extreemly. The chance on a hose whip with a 5'' tiphose is actualy almost zero. 

I know those things because i've tested it you know. Just try it at the end of a poor. Pump emty your hopper at full pressure with a 3'' tip hose (take at least 30 meters distance!!!!)  Than do the same with a 5'' tiphose and a 5'' double 45 . I will gladly come down and hold the double 45 for you. It will be rough but nothing like the 3'' tiphose. (please note that I am not talking about double 90s because they are indeed dangerous. I don't suport the use of those at all. The guy that invented those is an idiot)

Some people even use reducing hoses. Thats even more dangerous.

So if I have to break the rules to do things in a safer way than I rather choose safety over following the rules.

Here We go again..... One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest !

Haha. You're right. I'll shut up about it now. But I just think people should not tell me that I try to get people killed when they are not much better them selves. That's an insult you know. And quite a big one too if I would have to take all this serious. Than it gets quite hard for me to shut up.

I am going to do my best to avoid this subject in the future.

So How about Putzmeisters 'Pin Pour' or Kris Leer's 'Flow Cone', made out of a re-purposed traffic cone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-iiN_cn6mQ

Now that's funny,like would you rather me slap you or George Forman? Gimmi a break

Here's the Pin Pour:

http://www.putzmeister.com.sg/produkte/aps/pin_pour.asp

http://www.pmw.de/pm_online/data/BP_3245_GB.pdf

Myself, I'd prefer to put the improvised Flow Cone device on a single-ended hose.  The Pin Pour seems too heavy, there is still steel on the tip, although covered by plastic to protect the hoseman.

Yes. jockey. I'd also prefer the traffic cone. I should realy start testing that one on my customers. The pin poor I like a lot to but I find it very naieve of pm to say that when you cover metal with little layer of plastic than its safe. That's just a joke. Than I'll cover my double 45 in plastic and it will be nice and comfortable to get it in your face.