im getting into the shotcrete buissness next year,im thinking of buying either a putz katt kreter or a reed b50,

i was wondering if anybody knows any heplful info about these pumps ,

i know all the specs, their about the same price,

the putz has 30 extra hp,but the reed has 300 extra psi,

also if any body has any other info i could use concerning shotcrete buissness,i have  years epireience witrh concrete and am a certified nozzelman,all replies appreciated

You will get lots of post for your question but as the owner of this web site i would ask you to please give weight to the fact that REED supports this web site and the other company you mentioned does not. This web site helps so many and I hope it will be a great blessing to you also so please take into account REEDS support for this industry and this web site.

Todd

I would look at Reed and Olin.

Not just because they are site sponsors but because that is their business.

If you are going to be just in the shotcrete bizz the rules are different for you than for the rest of us. Call the professionals @ Olin and Reed; they are your best source of correct/legitimate information.

Here is the link to the oline dealer who sponsors this site.

http://www.gotolinpumps.com/

the last guy Speedy,said he doesnt shotcrete. I do and would say you are on the right track with your choices. The videos arent the same. one is just pumpng a wet!! load, and the other is shotcrete. I prefer reed but i am bias. stay away from ball valve unless your a good mech with lots of time.

I will say that I'm biased towards a swing tube.It will open a whole new world for you.

I posted a question about the difference in S-tube verses ball valve a while ago and I thought that the answers made sense. Here is the link. Perhaps this might help.

http://www.concretepumping.com/index.php?mode=newboard&act=topic&tid=1358

I have said it before.  My company used to have a pump manufactured from that other BIG company, nice pump, worked well.  Now we have a Reed.  The biggest difference between the two...With Reed, I have a personal field rep that I can call anytime, day or night and ask for help.  I have used this source many many times, my field rep has visited our company, has made himself available to me, and is always there to assist me when needed.  He has talked me thru problems, on the job, in a very easy step by step process and saved our company big time.  I know everyone on the other end of the phone at Reed when I call for parts or service questions.  Mike, Don, Ron, Wayne, Ruben, etc, etc,...Big sometimes doesn't get you great customer service....with Reed I feel like a person, not an account number.  Buy from one of our sponsors......

That is the way we would all LIKE to be treated.

Reed has always been at the top in terms of taking care of their customers.

IMHO that weighs heavily to their favor. Anyone will sell you a pump. Buy one from a company that will take care of you. ;~)

yes but reed pumps dont really have one that is built specially for shotcrete,

unless i went to the c series ,i cant afford that and their like twice the size.

im just a bit iffy about the reed b50 because its down 30 hp on the putz for the same$

more hp is less stress on the engine ,its alot of dollars for me ,i dont want to mess up

Hey Dude, REED just developed a brand new B50HP model (for the extra 30hp). It is so new that I haven't even put the specs up on our website yet...please don't tell anyone :) In my opinion, the B50 is ALREADY the PERFECT shotcrete pump - even the older 79hp version of the B50 is great for shotcrete (we just shot 2 pools with it over last week and the nozzleman said it was the smoothest shotcrete pump he'd ever handled - they're buying a new B50). The current B50's 98hp is VERY powerful...and 130hp might be a bit of overkill in my opinion (unless you're doing some very extreme shotcrete). Please call or email me tomorrow and I'll refer you to some very satisfied B50 owners. Mike Newcomb REED Shotcrete Pumps (and Concrete Pumps) www.REEDPumps.com (888) 779-7333 mike.newcomb@reedmfg.com

I have ran that tiger striped beast it is an awesome pump. I have used it for shot-crete inside caves and I was easily able to push that sticky mud in excess of 450 ft. through 2" system.

well i have seen a katt-kreter and bought a tk-40 thats now has 500 hours on it. this unit has been trouble free so i do not have to make calls for repair. now my tkb-30 worst item was cylinder seal in backwards. all parts and labor paid out is $100- per year x five and alot of oil changes. the katt-kreter would be my choise based on me being a return cutomer and the killer finacing that has a portfolio on that product.

One of the major complaints of using an S-tube to do shotcrete seems to be the buildup in the tube. Not being familiar with the shotcrete bizz' I wonder if this problem is due to the general versitility of the S-tube, and the size of the tube.

I know that http://www.transcrete.com/products_alpha.html

have been doing this for a long time and wonder if their smaller tube design is the answer???

Once again, this is more of a question than an answer. I am just throwing this into the discussion. Information is necessary to make a proper/informed decision. ;~)

Bob,an interesting perspective.Other than swimming pools (thats seasonal) or block fill I am bewildered as to why a soul would limit themselves to shotcrete only with a pump.A ball valve vs swing tube?.If I was to purchase I would say a look at overall industry.Perhaps a smaller piston and valve would work better for this one application,but then how many days would it sit idle.I know I would want every option to get the biggest bang for my buck.

I know. I have the same problem. Why limit your market? Perhaps this gent' has a handle on LOTS-O- shotcrete work... I dont know... I (personally) would want a machine with the versitility, but what do I know? ;~)

S-Tube line pumps can handle a much wider variety of mixes than ball-valve pumps can. S-Tube pumps with 6" material cylinders and 5" outlets can handle mixes with aggregate all the way up to 1.5" (though typically "big-rock" line pump jobs max out at 1" or 3/4" blend mixes). Of course, S-Tube pumps can easily handle anything that would go through a ball-valve pump - even handling some of the poorly graded pea gravel mixes that tend to give ball-valve pumps problems. AND, S-Tube pumps excel with super stiff shotcrete mixes - which is why most of the world's top wet-mix shotcreters are using S-Tube line pumps.

Ball-valve pumps are great for pumping 1/2" minus mixes in areas like Southern California and Florida where they know how to make a good pumpable line pump mix. But, a lot of places don't make a nice, well-graded pump mix - thus necessitating an S-Tube pump. Also...there are a lot of areas in the U.S. where there just aren't enough 1/2" minus aggregate jobs to keep the pump making money year round. (sidewalks, patios...)

Ball-valve pumps are less expensive than S-Tube pumps (because they are less expensive to manufacture) and are virtually surge free...but, they are really limited by mixes. To me, it's worth the extra expense and the extra surge to be able to buy an S-Tube line pump.

And to call all S-Tube pumps "Shotcrete Pumps" isn't really accurate. S-Tube pumps are by far the world's preferred method of doing wet-mix shotcrete, but they really should just be called "concrete pumps" - most of the boom pump manufacturers today are using the S-Tube.

One last thing...the reason that there is that buildup in those photos is PROBABLY because the pump couldn't pump a stiff-enough mix so they put in calcium so they could pump it wetter and it kicked off faster. (That didn't happen overnight, it PROBABLY happened with 8-10 jobs of not cleaning it (it wasn't a REED, I do know that)). REED pumps have enough pressure to pump very low slump shotcrete mixes without having to add calcium.

hey bob, i think you are right about the five inch tube being applical to shotcrete i allways wondered why. the concrete plants have a truck mix standard that is something a ball pump can not cut so you have to need a slippy tube to operate for the public. the ball pump is profitable but you will not get enough work to save your life then it costs more to be in this business. a ball valve is a toilet (ray mcnair) and iam telling you that a stiff slump and a ten minute time out i make decision to pump or wash, then i have a customer problem so they skrew up the job and look at me busting my ass telling me i have a problem and leave telling them i want to be paid. the best thing about a slippy tube is that i do not have to beat on the hose. well ye ha brian

The biggest problem with shotcrete mixes these days is that they contain too much sand and not enough rock. The concrete producers have lost the art of good gap grading and the magic 100 scieve sand. With 3% to 4% 100 screen sand, fly ash & silica and more rock the S-tube stays clean, does not build up, the mix can be pumped with a little more slump and it will stand up better.

On Transcrete pure dedicated shotcrete pumps, 6 , 6.5 or 7 bore concrete cylinders, they use 6 inch plate & ring and a 1.25 long 6 x5  reducing wear ring locator and 5 x 5 S-tube. Works a treat with the increased velocity.