From Richard O’Brien….. Leadership…. Where are you? Is it not the time the supposed leaders of our industry start charging for their services as most other industries do. Today, we are forced to pump at rates we pumped at 30 years ago. Here is an example for a 2001-Thomsen 30 years ago: Pumping Rate-Thomsen $110.00 Hour 2.25 Yard Cost of 2001 Thomsen $120,000.00 Fuel .40 Gal. Today’s Cost Schwing/Putz 36 Mtr $450,000.00 Fuel 4.50 Gal At the ACPA Seminar that I helped promote in Denver, Colorado, it was discussed at what price you need to pump at in order to make a profit. Was everyone asleep or what? Is this a game of Last Man Standing? I hope not. I hope everyone out there recognizes today that you had better pump for a profit because as you know, there is no equity in your pump, especially when two-year-old pumps get sold at 60% less than the purchase price at auction. Send for your copy of Nightmare Pump Company that I prepared years ago to give you an idea of what and how to figure costs of your operations and how we need to change our industry. Send request to val@obrienpumping.com Thank you. Richard O’Brien

So what was the price at which they determined you need to pump for with a new 36M to make profit?

Just a quick calculation $450k for a 36m Putz/Scwhing.

20% down= $90k   amount financed $360k  10% interest (easy math) 5yrs of interest= $180k + principal = $540k

Payment 9k per month, you should have at least 4x that a month in income before you pruchase above unit which means $36k per month.

9k pump payment, 4-5k wages,cost of doing business (insurance,advertising, maintenence,permits,cost of fuel etc) then you have dead money: office help,sales, mechanics ( I dont mean it in a bad way, they are just non income producing positions) it takes on the average of 1 job per day (if you have more than 1 pump) to cover the costs of that personnel.

So if you need to make $36k per month based just on the normal 20 work days a month, you would need to average $1800.00 per day for that unit. Divided by 8 hours= $225.00per hour for that unit then no less than $3.00 per yard to help cover the dead money costs.

You should be charging like the plumbers and heating and a/c guys gate to gate put too much greed and letting the contractors dictating the price prevents you from doing that. 1 thing that you should all be doing is charging no less from the time you leave your yard thru clean up. 32m and smaller no less than a 4hr min ( I dont think any of you will have the balls to ask for more than that) 36m - 47m 6hr minimum, 52m and above 8hr minimum. Maybe in the afternoon jobs if the pump has already been out you can try and generate a little extra income and ask for 4hr minimum on all pumps in the am if you am pours have all been charged and paid their minimums. Just remmeber the more you lower your prices the more work you have to do to eearn the same amount of money, and that doesnt really work because if you are doing twice the amount of work to earn the same amount of money, your maintence will go up and if you dont keep up on it you will have an expensive piece of junk at the end of 5yrs if your pump lasts that long...I dont profess to know much but these are some of the number I was taught years ago by Richard and Pete Horner and it has always dome me well when I have been in sales.

I know you can also only charge what the market will bare but everyone needs to get their prices up. I wish we all had the answers to all questions I cetainly dont but those were my thoughts and some quick math.

Joe obviously has a pretty good handle on what it costs to operate. I have one exception.

The afternoon pours, even with a min' charge need to be billed at a higher rate than any morning (first job) work.

Afternoon work requires (fleet machines) to retain, on the clock, back-up personnel, mechanics that otherwise would be released to go home, wash rack people and the fact that the operator will most typically be working on a rate of at least 150% of his regular pay.

It costs More, not less to pump in the afternoon.

And lets not forget the DOT hours of service rules that are so easy to break by performing afternoon work.

  art

Greed is a sickness

Right you are

Good Am Bob,

     Very true, what I forgot to add last night was, I dont think the majority of companies would ever try and get 2 8hr minimums that is why I suggested 4hrs in the afternoon pours, but what they could also do is designate a time lets say 330pm any time after that there is an additional $50.00hr added to the pump rate?? and the DOT that is a whole other thing that often (not that it should) goes by the way side.

Leadership= one who leads by example.In this day and age it seems as though this is a thing of the past,today it is, do as I say not as I do,if we are asking these companies with 100s of pumps to do what you will not do that is not rite,in my opinion this is how I see it= I am a leader I will lead by example and I do not need anyone else to show me the way,if I do it,they will follow ,I do not expect to be led by anyone else I make my own way I do not make excuses for my actions,but I will defend them ,if it sinks my ship I will go down with it,I will not ask anyone else to go down with me, you cannot look for leadership elsewhere if you are the owner/manager you have to be willing to go where your company needs to be,not Obrien,Pumpco,Brundage bone as big and great as these companies are they make profit by doing high volumes of work with lots of pumps,most of us need to make more on less work,so why would they help the competition when they are profitable the way they are,I would ask you find your leadership from within because your not gonna find it on the outside. 

Now I hear some people talking some good common since ideas.

Maybe one or two can and will work on it, but there are still some horses asses who won't play ball. 

  Wash-rak people.back-up people,mechanic,150% pay????????????????????

BOB , BISLEY IS OLD SCHOOL LIKE US HE HASNT HEARD OF MECHANICS WASHRACK GUYS 150% PAY MEANS TIME AND A HALF O/T,We as a company o/t anytime before 7am or after 3 pm $20 an hour extra,no breaks on 2nd rounds 4 or 5 hr min. depending on pumps,travel charge is hourly rate of pump 3.50 to 4.00 per yd depending on pump size and 8% fuel surcharge plus permit charge this is not the time to be working for less you better get a fair rate for what you do harder times are coming

bisley57

Sorry for the culture shock. No one ever bailed me out or washed my pump either but that is the way it goes.

It really is less expensive to have someone else wash the pumps & fuel them for $10.00 straight time than to pay an operator OT........ I know, we used to do it for free ;~)

I am still waiting for someone to tell me the name of a company that went out of business for charging too much.

Do it and they will follow=LEADER cant we all comprehend that this works all it takes is one man a true leader to put his fears aside and do it.QUALITY,SERVICE,GOOD OPERATORS,DEPENDABILITY THIS SELLS

I had a conversation with a fellow a while back.  He attended the ACPA meeting in Texas.  He walked into a meeting by accident.  He said the names of some of the people in the meeting.  One of them was a person who sits very very high in the industry and the man was telling the others in the room, "We are the big people in this industry and we set the standards.  What we say is how the industry has to react".  I am not positive to the exact words, but this is what I got out of it.

After hearing that and then reading what you guys and I have written, I feel these "BIG SHOTS" are grinning right now and possibly think this is a joke.  We need to get serious about these rates.  I don't pump anymore either, but I sell to the pumpers in my area.  I do appreciate how Coastal Carolina tends to keep their prices up there.  It is unfortunate that some others don't.  I know Coastal can and will get dirty if they have to, but if they had their way the prices would be double what they are now.  This is not intended at a pitch for Coastal, but I do appreciate how they lead by example.

There is another somewhat large company here in NC and he plays the price thing.  I guess when you run junk you can sell cheap.  Well, not for very long.

To you BIG BOYS..... Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!

I would like for all of you to just DO THE MATH:

10% LESS WORK

FOR

10% MORE MONEY

The only down side to this theory is that if rates are increased......the other companies will keep on pumping for lower rates. Pretty sure it takes everybody to do this, and I am sure that other companies would not honor this. Too bad.

Pudg had a very good point that a salesman maqy sell and get you a job but a quality operator and how you handle a problem quickly professionally and responsibly will keep you long after your salesman has moved on. It will always be that way your operators will keep the business coming back time and again or run them off if he isnt qualified..

Very True, I know with all the racing you do, you cant accept peanuts for your work my friend.

Its Far from Simple But what we need is some on the clock UNITY. We're all buds After the pump is parked. During the day we're at each others throughts. If the top 2 or 3 competitors in one area took ONE day to contact other smaller companies and showed them an honest proposal with their current price increases it would spread.

 A local "Big Boy" just increased their rates and everyone's rubb'n their hands together waiting for the Rats to jump ship. Instead give the Rats nowhere to run. There will always be the "Pirate Ship" outfit, In every town. But remember Everyone learns "You get what you pay for" eventually!

if you are not willing to raise your prices and be a positive influence on this industry you have no right to complain,just because the BIG BOYS(that makes me laugh)say they run this industry,doesnt meen they run your business,I for one will not let anyone dictate my prices ,no I cant get what we should be getting ,but I get more than most and thats a start,I am not sure but I believe the small pump companies are the majority these days maybe if we unify we could get this industry headed in a better direction

I am glad someone knows the difference between the "big boys" and the "BADBOYS" one of which ya dont muss with. Guess which one??

It's funny that I came in this morning and read this thread, because just yesterday I had come face to face with this issue (Just in a different industry). The body & paint shop I work at charges $75hr (fully insured, fully in compliance with all the laws...legitimate shop) until recently that was the average going rate for body shops. Just yesterday I went to see a customer to do an estimate, after checking the truck, getting part prices, sending him the quote; he calls me and tells me I came in to high. He said he had another estimate from another body shop @ $39hr and they’ll pick up and deliver. Even the manufactures body shops, which used to be @ $85-$90hr, are dropping to $55-$60hr. I have already seen a good amount of ma & pa shops go under because they cut cost to get all the work, but ends aren’t meeting.

Maybe there is another Coastal Carolina Concrete pumping. The one I am familiar with is nothing at all like the one mentioned here.

Vic,

They must be your major competition, right? Please tell your troops that we usually don't throw rocks at specific companies.

Thanks,

Bob ;~)

Bob

My fellow Carolina pumpers have obviously taken issue with "kretch's" assessment of brand (x).(Identity concealed to protect the guilty), I also used to work for brand x many years ago, turned in my resignation when their business practices got a young man killed.

I am not throwing stones, but I would like Kretch to take his blinders off, then he might see who is responsible for underhanded dealing in this market.