Hello everyone. I added a 2004 38Z Concord and I'm having stuggles with prime and washout. Our other truck is a 32 Schwing XL I center rock valve water prime in a A pattern easy duty. Wash out in a mixer I always water wash and again easy duty no problems with either for the most part for 7 years. With the Z I can't quite get a nice A pattern and one time I tried in a Z with a bit of a struggle. The truck doesn't have a prime port and I can't center the S tube to get much water ahead of the crete. Wash outs go better but I dont get as much water through into the mixer drum so I dont think pipes are as clean as with the Schwing. I prefer water wash so I don't have as much concrete in the hopper to deal with when I clean out. Thoughts and suggestions???

If I was in your situation. I would

Tap the pipes and pull a few elbows off of your Concord (when your in the yard). Just to be sure your new machine doesnt have any old build up from the pervious owner.

I would definitily check the S tube and be sure it is free of concrete build up.

I would check the cutting ring and wear plate for wear.

In your opinion, does your new Concord hold enough water in the hopper to efficinenly water wash? If not, put some more rubber around the back of the hopper, so it will hold more water. Or, leave your water on while your pumping water into the mixer. I've done both. GL

About your prime. I've seen guys that are used to a prime port do fine priming with them, but take that prime port away from them and they always have a hard time.

When I prime, 10 -15 gallons of water in the hopper. Turn the pump on and ask the mixer driver to start dumping mud and walk away.

If I was you. I would use prime aid until you get a good feel for how much water and how fast you need to be pumping to get a good prime.

Uff that doesn't sound to good an advice IMO..

Priming without primeport: Fill water in hopper untill 1/3rd of the cylinder opening. Pump a bit and stop the S-tube just before it switches over. Fill concrete on top of the S-tube until it runs over to the other side. You will see the concrete pushes the water in to the cylinderhole. Switch on the pump just when all the water is pushed in to the cylinder.

With the concord 38Z I would advice you to pump quite fast when priming. (3/4 from flat out) We had some trouble with that pump also but when I started to prime with high volume it was never a problem. As soon as you hear that the concrete is over the top (A-frame) and starts to fall down in your pipes then slow down the volume..

Never prime in a Z-frame unless you have grout. Recipe for disaster.

It is also ok to prime with 1,2,3 sections upwards in for example 30 degrees angle and only the 4th straight down. I feel just as safe doing that as when I A-frame. The 38z is hard to get a decent A-frame so this might be a solution in some situations.  

If you get problems with water wash then I'm not surprised. Thats a risky operation and I can't feel sorry for anyone that gets trouble with that way of washing   This might just be the reason why you have problems priming again the next day. There might be leftovers of rock in the pipes.

If all this doesn't work it might indeed be buildup in the pipes also..

Good luck !

I prime through the hopper with an s-tube,  a cap full of truck wash and 30ish litres of water then start pumping. helps if you back the first mixer up so the chute is only just in the hopper then the crete will push the water forward up the cylinders.

what Dipstick said-i agree

i got that same truck, be very aware of what goes up that pipe first. water to lube pipe, then concrete, not totally watered down rocks

oh and when you crank that concord up to 3/4 vol. make sure you let the rm driver know cuz if doesnt have his finger on the button your hopper goes empty fast

i find that the second job of the day you can prime in z, maybe cuz the pipe is wet? but you gotta just love zboom pumping in a z configuration!!!

imo

if having problem priming in any position, 9 times out of 10 (in my experience) the pipes are not clean enough.  still have yet to see any benifit to water wash other than being lazy or after a disater day.

the 1 out of 10 is too much water

guys i used to not agree with water washing , I still do not do it personally , but have been around it and pulled 90s after and if done right the pipe is as clean as when pulling back a bullet , I would have to think that thier is build up somewhere .

Beast. Did you open up the deck pipes and see if there was any rocks left behind there?

Not saying its not possible to do it right. Just that there is a lot of risk for doing it wrong.

I would crawl underneath your hopper and open the trap door. Have a look up at the cutting ring and wear plate from that angle. They can look fine from the top, but be worn out real bad on the bottom. This is another thing which could cause you to have problems on both the priming and clean out side of things.  

I actually pulled the 45 at the reducer coming off the hopper and it looked like it had been washed with a scrub brush , nothing left what so ever , and I have seen it done incorrectly where their was rocks and sand left , I do not do it , and I think its a waste of water , but as I have dealt with so many operators from different areas and it works for them , I do not think its the best way , I am a bullet/go devil guy myself and only water wash if I am in a terrible bind and its necessity.

Everyone primes diffrent but as far as watter washing if your not use to it or not a seasoned operator i wouldnt try it. Rember if you suck a ball it will always be clean. But since i learned on a thompson thats all we knew is watter washing.  I still do it today even with my 52m.  But it all depends on the mud .  But on a 38m you can do it with one hopper of watter. Pump your hopper down  stop your agitator make sure your boom is in a no less then 45deg angel up and with two sections and outher two in a down position. Fill hopper with watter half way up the rubber . Now comes the part you dont want to mess up on. Turn pump on i use half valume when you se watter come out the end  put pump in reverse with full throttle and volume wide open and agitator it reverse. If done properly you will have full hopper of watter. If you dont have full hopper then you probably have a deck full of sand and rock.  So best advice is if you arnt comfortable or feel confedent watter washing your boom then suck a ball.  

You hit the nail on the head. 

Just wondering.. What happens if somewhere at a crucial moment in this procedure the pump shuts its self down or loose signal and you have to reset and start up again?

Thanks for all the input. Great to hear all of the ways to do things. Water wash is going better. I have another pumper locally that is going work with me on sucking a ball. Also uses a garbage can and sucks 40/50 gallons of water without the ball.

Thats just what I mean pumpnfinish. I realy like you lets not mistake about that  

But if I ever get an operator that insists of doing water wash outs all the time he would be looking for another job. At the least he would not get any help at the shop digging out his deck pipes and he would also not get payed for the hours

FYI: I used to stop and start the pump to fill small sono tubes/columns or top ups on a wall or footing and have even had my battery die on my remote halfway through a waterwash and still be successful with it. If you are meticulous with all of your steps, you can have a 100% success rate with it. 

I haven't waterwashed in over 2 years because where I live now, it's just not practical, the concrete trucks have very small water tanks so it would take too long to use my own water to fill the hopper and on a lot of machines, you wouldn't have enough water to washout with at the end. We also use the operato/linehand system where I live now so you have an extra man helping you clean everything up at the end.

At the end of the day, I would adapt to the conditions you are given and most regions all have characteristics that are unique to its area . Nonetheless, I'm glad i'm armed with the ability to waterwash in case I run into trouble one day where it is the best case scenario to use as a cleanout method.

I think someone said earlier that when priming the whole point is to get water in front of your concrete to lube the pipes ( without seperating the rocks from the concrete). Someone said that adding a prime pack can help, and if you are using a good prime pack then im sure it could, most of the time i have had a harder time priming with a prime pack because it helped to dry out my mud. the way i prime my boom ( i do it like this with system hooked up too) is i will shoot water into my cylinders. so when my hopper is totaly empty, i will get water from the mixer ( with the water nozzle on) i turn the pump on and shoot water into the each cylinder as the rock valve moves about 5 to ten times and then my water is infront of my mud and i can have the mixer fill up my hopper and not worry about turning the pump on at the right time or making a mess or anything. before someone tried to say that doing this is unsafe, i always have my grate down and i never touch the grate. i would think that doing this should work on a s tube set up as well?

ive had poor success pulling a sponge in a z config. anyone got a tip? how about folding it all up then sucking it? anyone?

We don't teach our guys to do it, but a Z boom will suck a sponge all folded up and on the deck most of the time, provided the Crete isn't too dry (at least 4" slump). Usually by the time the sponge starts to move it'll rocket through the corners and leave a bunch behind.  It's fine for when you're headed to another job, but those chips will wreak havoc on your prime the next day....

i must be doing something different greenguy. suck back folded up everyday and these were my pipes