Todd | 09-15-2010 | comment profile send pm notify | ||||
Construction ground to a halt Tuesday at the Luna project, at 12th Avenue and 10th Street S.W. in Calgary, when a concrete pumper lost its footing, lifted off the ground, and swung through air. No one was injured in the incident. |
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I was told nobody got hurt. That is the good news. |
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I know the guys at Dynamic and they are a great bunch of guys. I am really sad they had this problem. I know they are a really good company also.
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Wildbill83 | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Wow...they were recently looking for an operator....i hope it aint the new guy, that doesn't make the right impression on the new boss |
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Dipstick | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
But how?? It doesn't realy look short rigged ?? And would he realy be so unwise to stretch the boom all out if he was? |
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Dipstick | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I bet it was a very heavy bird that came and sit on his tip section. |
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crazycreter | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Readymix driver standing on right rear corner was too skinny!!! he is probably in counselling now!!!! |
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typesdubs | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I'm going to guess that long black thing near the tip might be a few hoses he was picking up or pulling back, just a guess, glad no one was hurt and would love to know how it really happened. |
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Drew AUS | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I agree looks like he might have been trying to empty the hoses with the boom , but you never know .... |
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Dipstick | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Yea but does this happen than?? I'd more think the last section would snap before this will happen. I don't believe ist that. Doesn't look like more than 5-6 meters with 3'' hose. Even 10 meters should go fine since there is no 5'' tiphose |
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mytfynsunshine | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Those are some wild pics. Glad no one got hurt. |
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Schwinger | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Heavy, Heavy machine. |
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52putz | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I know in the Concord I ran, when booming over the side, you really needed to have opposite side outriggers fully extended as a counterbalance. Otherwise it would bounce around and the feet would walk around on the pads. I also requested the outriggers full with diesel or water(depending on the outrigger) for weight. That looks like part of the problem... |
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Munir | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Yes 52putz. You are right my guess is same thing because the job side outriggers are looking in good position but I think other side outrigger was totally empty. (Usually 55m. pump heave operator side outrigger is water and other side is diesel) The problem is some company changing the operator every day to different pump and some operator do not care about extra diesel in out rigger they fill only in tank when they last day park the pump in shop. And next day when other operators take the same pump usually he heave short time to reach his job site he also doesn’t care about that because some company don’t want to call the operator little bit early. It’s also depending on the management how much they giving the attention like these things |
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ice | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
No reason for that pump to turn over unless that back outrigger was shortrigged. One foot would've been enough. |
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BJN | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
This is an excellent comment and right on the money I think. You see short setting on the oposite side too often and operators don't realize the importance of that cantilevered weight |
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Dipstick | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I heared a story about a compagnie that replaced the pipes on the boom for the same heavy duty pipes they used on the first 10 meters on the truck itself. Next day everything went fine untill they pumped crete in the pipes. The pump just tipped. I don't believe the story of the counter weight. I've driven 52m schwing for a long time and shortrigged many many times with empty outriggers. And lifted quite some hoses to. (sorry for that) If the outriggers on the job site are totaly out it cant just tip over. |
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52putz | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I understand. Just using my experience. Just look at it this way; He has the boom fully extended with the tip section up a bit (so he was probably trying to stop the mud from dripping out the hose), and he was lifting three? 4" hoses. My guess is: He had everything in the air (hoses, boom) and either swung or dipped the boom too quickly. The torque when the boom stopped was too much for the footprint and the weight of everything full of mud took it over. Just a guess. As far as I can tell, he did almost everything right so he's a safe operator...just had bad luck. Schwing and Putz do a fabulous job engineering these machines but I'm sure they test under more optimal conditions. |
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SUPERDOFFER | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Excuse me if I am wrong. But this looks to me as a normal every day concrete poor. These pumps also were designed and tested to poor heavy concrete. And that means about 3KG on every meter of your boom extra. On that weight a little fluid in your outrigger make no diverence In my point of view; if this pump was set up whit his wheels on the ground there is a chance that he began to dance on his suspension [I have learned old stile wheels on the ground new stile wheels of the ground O and putz52 if putz test a new design they test it over the edge that means till it breaks ore tips over. |
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52putz | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Yep. you're right. :)
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"MUDDY" | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Didn't that company have an ad on this site looking for an operator???? Looks like they will be looking for two operators now. No matter how you look at it ...OPERATOR ERROR.. |
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Todd | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Its always better to not say what we think happened and wait to hear what really did happen. We can all guess but only a few know. I hope we will all know soon. |
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Tiago40m | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I dont think its fair to the operator or to the company for you guys to judge what really happen if no one knows what really happen . |
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Dipstick | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Yes Todd. Thats what would be best. Only that we never get to hear what realy went wrong. Suddenly it all becomes very quiet and everyone hopes we'll forget about it. So we'll have to figure it out ourselves than don' we? I think maybe 52puts story makes sence but maybe in combination with an outrigger that was maybe pulled in about 20cm or so.. |
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FunnyBoom | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
It doesn't look like there is much hose on there at all but it does look like he was lifting the main when it happened. In the pictures you can see the cylinder for the main section is not bottomed out and actually up some. In my opinion it would have been bottomed out for maximum reach into the pit. Wouldn't being stretched out and booming below the truck like that create a greater amount of "torque" on the unit since you are booming so far below the center of gravity? Those big pumps can be a b*%&h to get set up sturdy when you are stretching them out. Some days it seems like you never get it right. In my opinion its just like another man already said. He got a little wild with the boom and it went past its balance point. I'm willing to bet the whole time he was pumping the opposite outriggers were flopping around or in the air. It will daefinitely make me think the next time I stretch our 61 out and the outriggers start floating. All it takes is that one surge or getting a little wild with the sticks and you have pictures like this. Just my opinion fellas. Could be right could be wrong. |
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drummerboy | 09-15-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Having been involved in the manufacturing of concrete pumps I do know that this brand engineers their pumps stability with the outrigger as a counterbalnce. In fact most companies use this procedure because it is a factor in which the whole machine can have a slight wieght reduction. It is often not an issue except when the bounderies are pushed beyond the safety margins. not sure what happened here but there is a thousand words in just one picture on the post, pretty easy to read. |
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baddogpumping | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Funnyboom has the right idea when it comes to booming below grade and stretched all the way out like this pump. I think almost everyone here has had at least one pucker factor of 10 and said to then self "crap that was lucky" unfortunately this wasn't one of those time. There has been a time or to where we had to anchor down the off side with either cables to counter weights or a 980 Cat loader. As for that p/u truck in between the outriggers which was probably an inspector's truck and I will almost guaranty he will never park there again. |
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pumpjockey | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I believe that pickup belongs to the pumping company, likely the salesman's. |
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biloximike | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
What would be interesting is the pictures getting the pump back on solid footing. |
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SUPERDOFFER | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
There is not much trouble setting that pump on his feet. Setup a small crane on the of working side for control and bolt of the pipes one by one. A boom whit out pipes isn’t heavy he comes back on his feet real smooth. |
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pumpjockey | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Pop the clamp on the reducer at the tip - problem solved, except for the immediate crash that ensues. But seriously, 2 cranes, one to lift at the first section, one to 'catch' and set the pump down gently. Once the cranes are supporting load, then pop the clamp. When it's back down to terra firma, clean the hopper on site, then water wash the boom, fold up and drive to Vancouver for the neccessary inspection. |
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Dipstick | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
1 The reason that I and a lot more of us want to know what realy happened is not so we can bash at others or that we want sensation. It's just so we can understand these kind of things and learn from them. It would be very stupid if some people know what happened here and not do anything with the info to prevent it from happening again. 2 If pumps realy get designed so that the outrigger is a counterweight and if not fully extended the pump is in danger to tip over than that's very stupid. It shows (IF IT'S TRUE) that the designers of those pumps know little about what it's like out there. For me it is a rare situation when I can fully extend all my outriggers. The absolute minimum they could do is put a huge warning sticker on the truck. That's why I think it's not true. |
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52putz | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Well put...but for #2, don'y the suggest that the outriggers are always fully extended? I agree that if it IS used for counterweight, they should warn you. From experience, I know I can get the truck to calm down by extending the opposite side outriggers if they are not. Just to reiterate, we are NOT bashing, just discussing. Everyone is curious; we don't really see a problem from the pictures. |
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52putz | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Could he have been draggin a couple of hoses across the mesh, got a clamp caught and just kept on pullin with the boom until it tipped? It happens really fast so he didn't know anything was wrong intil the truck was in the air? No offense. |
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Dipstick | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Yea that could be. We all have our little moments of unawareness. Nothing to be ashamed of because we all have them. Who hasn't experienced that he was messing with something in the car and suddenly asked himself how long ago it was that he last looked up to the road?? |
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52putz | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
HA! I lose count! |
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rick5z | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
If you're not willing to pull your own skeletons out of the closet,then you need to leave other peoples in there too!! |
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Boomerz | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Facts 1) The outriggers were fully expended, 2 )The pump can be short rigged on the none working side, 3 )sections 4&5 were lifted some while the main was lifted to drain 1 or 2 hoses, 4) The pump tipped over slowly and no one was hurt 5) No real operator error (Not a new operator) 6) Alliance is investigating , no real explanation scary?!?!? |
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pineos pumpin | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
i know the operator personally and he takes his time settin his pumps up. the outriggers on the work side of the pump were fully extended. the only outriggers the were short rigged was on the passenger side. |
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52putz | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Good info, thanks! Yea, I really can't see how it would be Op error. |
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mudcup | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Well in my opinion that the outriggers could not be a counterwight or else why would Putz make the pumps with OSS One Sided Support, to me that tells you right there that's not the issue here. Everybody on here has shortrigged numerous times but I would like to know what happened |
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putzstar | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
As a former operator,now driving a mixer,I have delivered to these 55meter alliance pumps,and have seen the operator short rig when space was limited,it's not operator error,many a time I've seen this senario,and the pump did not go over,I agree with the fact that the concrete was about a 100mm slump,(they do not like a high slump on this site)and the extra weight and being down that far any quick stop would cause it to go off balance, |
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drunkendave | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I talked to the guys we by parts from in Calgary & he told me that Dynamic have been getting prank phone calls from some competitors in town. Karma anyone? |
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mudcup | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Yea I ran a mixer for 7yrs. then went to pumping best move I made, mixers get boring
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putzstar | 09-16-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Glad you enjoy running pump,but when you start putting 15 -17 hour days for 10years let me know how much fun it is to run a pump |
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rusty22 | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Ill go with ice on his idea of the rear outrigger. And the dumpster next to it. I ran the 55m 260 putz for years never had a problem like that. The out riggers don[t even have to be out on the other side .They are not a counter balance.BUT THEN AGAINyou put the wrong gauge pipe on the boom it;s a differant ballgame. Ok now that is three accidents with large booms.The one in florida telliscopic boom.The schwing with the boom link on the main section.So Todd why don;t you put the outcome of the accidents up? And keep it there next to one of the flames like the pumper test. |
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Dipstick | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Is that alluminium wheels I see? Is that original? Quite some weightreduction there maybe. I don't know..... reeaaally would like to know the answer to this one... |
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Blaine Torgerson | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Everyone seems to have a theory. How 'bout this one...
The pictures don't show where the outriggers were placed. You can clearly see the ground is wet like it's been raining. Maybe he sunk into the ground enough to put the pump past it's tipping point. Similar accident happened to one of my operators down here in San Diego.
Set up on pavement but there's no way to tell if the ground is undermined 8' below from water erosion unless you have a big red S on your chest and x-ray vision.
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Dipstick | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
3 large accidents that we know from this site. I know of at least 3 more 52m that have collapsed in the last year in holland only. 1 more 58m 3 years ago. One I remember had put his outrigger 1'' away from a concrete wall. But under heavy pumping the pump started to move slightly towards the wall causing so much sideways force on the hyd.cil. that it snapped. One had an old forgoten basement under his outrigger. One had 1,5 x 1,5 meters dunnage on an asphalt road but still went straight throug. One had a complete cranepad onder the outrigger on very muddy ground. The cranepad just snaped. And this where all people I know that have been involved with these incidents. So there must be much more. There is just a lot we never hear about. |
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Todd | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I have been told that when the facts come out they will be submitted to ConcretePumping.com so all can learn from this tragedy. Are there any other pictures out there of this accident? |
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pineos pumpin | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
i to have ran on of those 55 m for dynamic and seen it down a 1000 times where there was no outriggers on one side and they never went over. ant yes they are aluminam wheels. now on the sits downtown we usaully had rig mats to put under the outriggers now i dont know if they had them on this site or not. |
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PedroALL5Z | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
The pump was short rigged END OF STORY. 55M alliance pumps are to never be short rigged period. I run the exact pump here in saskatchewan and would never have done that. |
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pineos pumpin | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
95% of the time in downtown calgary theree is only enough room for your outriggers on one side. maybe this will open the contractors eyes and will give the the guys more room to set up. |
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Deaner | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
there was a similar accident in Victoria, BC back in march involving a 40m pump i believe. it was on the front page of the victoria times colonist and i have a picture here somewhere ill post it when i find it. this is the worksafe bc summary of the accident: Injury Type : Close call this pump was also shortrigged on the non-working side and as far as i can tell no explanation as to why it tipped was ever given. |
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biloximike | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Out of curiosity where was the operator? Was he down in the hole at the end of the boom or on the side of the hole looking down, or on his pump? The question is did the pump go over so quickly that it could not be prevented at all, or if a trained operator was standing on the back of the pump could he have sensed and alerted the boom operator that something was amiss, shut down the pour and solved the problem before it reached the point of no return? |
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pink panther | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Hey MUDDY, I have seen some of your pics and read some of your posts. So you are the last one that should be making comments about operator error. |
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pink panther | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
You are right "mudcup" I was going to say the same thing about the putz SSO. Obviously it is not a problem or they would not have designed a pump to shortrig on the opposite side of the pour. I have had a putz 52 tractor trailer with opposite side outriggers 1 foot off the ground. It was set up as good as it could, but still floated when reaching down in a hole. I have also had the rear outriggers and trailer tires off the ground when stretching forward. All the balance on the 2 fronts. So tell me that the whole trailer of a 52 is not enough counterweight to keep it down. There is no way that 2 outriggers are enough counterweight to stop this from happening. |
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"MUDDY" | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
if it's not operator error then who the hell is responsible for the safe set up and operation of a pump??? the bum asleep on a park bench acroos the street??? give me a break. as for you mr. pink panther. why don't you put some pictures on here and let me tell you what i think about you. that aint gonna happen is it now... you don't know me, so don't pick me out in front of everybody... PUSSY. |
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dcpu1 | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
First off, just to clear the air the “Alliance” 55 meter boom pumps mounted on the MR Mack tridem /tridem trucks that we have in our fleet (we currently have four) are very stable when short rigged on the opposite side of the truck that the boom work is to be performed on. What makes these units unstable is if the down cylinder on the short side outriggers are not checked and adjusted downward throughout the pour to prevent any space from the bottom of the foot of the outrigger and the outrigger pad. Providing the short side outrigger is snugged up these units have been very stable and in our area short rigging is common and the only method to access projects. The reason this pump tipped over was because the operator used the boom to pull back two hoses full of concrete by lifting the fifth section of the boom upward with the rest of the boom flat out and in a negative position (slab was below grade elevation). The extra weight and extra force this applied to the boom was well in excess of its design and capacity and as all experienced boom operators would know this cannot be done anywhere anytime without serious consequences . This was the sixth time we had pumped concrete in the same relative position using 55m booms on this site, with the same outrigger and boom configuration without incident. The same pump and operator had also completed a previous large slab pour without incident. The best news of this incident is nobody was injured, and Dynamic is feeling very, very fortunate that we did not lose any of our Dynamic placers and finishers who were working under that boom for Dynamic as they are all like family here. The pump sustained very little damage and Thursday passed an engineer’s structural inspection for safe continued operation. Dynamic Concrete Pumping Inc. www.dcpu1.com |
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pumpjockey | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
That's awesome!! Someone from the Company itself had responded to the thread. Thanks for clearing the air on the circumstances and contributing factors. This just goes to show how the forces are tremendously multiplied as the working radius increases. When the manufacturer states the maximum weight on the tip is 378 lbs (or whatever) they really mean it. This is another subject to emphasize during training/certification. |
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Todd | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I would like to thank Dynamic Concrete Pumping for sharing with us what happened and I know they will save lives by doing so.
I am so proud to have Dynamic Concrete Pumping as a member of this web site. |
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"MUDDY" | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Thanks for providing the information to clear the air. Way to step up. My hats off to Dynamic. Like I said fellas "OPERATOR ERROR" I will be accepting apologies until 11 pm central time. |
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Todd | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
What a great Pump, I am stunned that the pump is built so well that it passed inspection and is back at work. Alliance makes a great pump. Its funny the boom is rated to a couple hundred pounds at the tip but can lift the truck at the other end. |
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SUPER DAVE | 09-17-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
how did they get her down safely?? |
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95schwing | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Just goes to show you "muddy" don't do things the pump should not be doing just to get the job done! |
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Dipstick | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
If you reaaaalllly HAVE to lift up a hose than at least use the first section and try to get your tipsection down as soon as possible. But of course its better not to lift up anything. It does make me think though. I have lifted quite some hoses in the past. That's how they teached me. but I did learn over the years that that's not the way to go. Stupid thing is that by than you start thinking that it went ok so many times... Why not this time. A lot of error is done in the training of new guys. The strangest thing is that a crane operator has to spend so much time getting his certifficates while any plain truckdriver can just drive a pump. When is the great ACPA and all those other so called safety clubs gona do something about that?? Here they started with a course for all the pumpers. I had to take it to but that was just a joke. We could just ask the teacher the question during the exam and he would just answer. Question 23 is answer B. I was realy doing my best but afterwards he said that if we wrote only our name on the paper we would still pass... :-o |
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bisley57 | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Why was this pour not made at night with the street closed?My analogy is this,short rigging such a large truck is asking for trouble,it is like walking the interstate and seeing how close you can get to traffic,just plain foolish. |
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Jimbo | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
You're right,"news,no injuries" we can fix equip. and redesighn to prevent future accidents but we can't fix or replace Life. My question, was he actually pumping when this happend? |
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murf | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
dcpu 1 : Top marks to you and many thanks for the response for whats turned into a lesson for us all, no matter what size boom. Good news that all was ok in the end. Todd: Thanks for the email and your part in this. |
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bisley57 | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Todd,which end of a fishing pole do you hold? |
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pumpjockey | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
As for doing the pour at night. That would take some very special circumstances for the RM plants to supply. Western Canada operates on a different set of principals. I don't think that short-rigging the off-side was a significant contributing factor to this incident. |
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frye | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
When I first started in 76 I was running a Thomsen 747. I was taught not to use you boom for dragging or picking up more than 2 hoses. I've run everything from that 747 to a 52 Putz. Never had a boom tip over on me. Concrete pumps I was told were for pumping concrete Period. Not to pull out syuck vibrators or pull hose. I was taught by someone that started their pumping career on a McCarr. |
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dcpu1 | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Here is how we lifted it back onto its feet without any issues, 125ton crane with a sling around #1 section (main) and a wrecker with his sling around front short rigged outrigger to prevent it from coming back to quickly. Crane lifted main and the wrecker lowered his sling keeping the sling with minimal tension. DCPU
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Dipstick | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Even a nice video of the recovery. Respect!! I wish all compagnies could be so open about this kind of things. Much better than hoping people will forget about it. |
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Vasa | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
dcpu1 do you remember what the crane-scale showed ? With or without mud in the pipe ?
A nice NRC rotator who hold the pump when the crane lifted your pump !
Can we have some guess on the weight in the crane !
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dcpu1 | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I seem to think it hit 18,000lbs at peak lift |
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rusty22 | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I',m going to stay with the name brands with years of technology.Putz & Swang |
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Vasa | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
It sounds like a real number , the last one We picked showed
7700 kg , a 46 meter .
18000 lbs approx 8165 kg . It was a nice salvage ! |
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pump031 | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Dcpu1, Did you clean it out first? Or do you have alot of stove pipe on your hands. Also Is the operator still employeed? |
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moneybags | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
if it was putz or schwing they would be pickin it out of there in pieces |
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16 CELL | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
in a situation like that, are you able to blow the boom out and/or save the hopper/cylinders?
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PUMBO | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Suppose the operator decided to suck back the sponge, (get concrete out of boom) wouldnt that bring back the pump to its original position? |
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Boozehound | 09-18-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
How would you be able to clean out the pipe? Where would you put the sponge in? Could you safely break off an elbow to stick it in and if so would there be enough concrete in the hopper to get suction to suck it back? Just curious what your options would be. |
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pink panther | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
To my dearest MUDDY, in this case, it ended up being operator error but my point is that you immediately blame the operator. It could have been numerous things that caused this. Secondly, I have posted pics on here and will put more when I feel like it and I really do not care what you think about me. Thirdly, watch who you call a "PUSSY". |
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Dipstick | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
well well boys.. Lets keep it profesional ;-) I know from several of these kind of incidents that they just opened an elbow and sucked a ball back through the pipes that were not destroyed. Than took a ladder or reachtruck up to the hopper and opened it. But it does depend a bit on how large angle the truck stands in. If the angle is too large than you might get a problem with fluidlevels. Hydro oil, diesel might start to runn out etc. But in this case it would have been possible I think. |
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PUMBO | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
what I'm getting at is, if two hoses full of concrete can put you over the tilting edge, then surely getting 50 meters of concrete out of the line should return the pump back to position...impossible to do with safety personnel on site (allowing access to such thing), but practically would work and if done at low rpm, should bring pump back at a steady rate. |
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Dipstick | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
It doesn't work that way. If it's gone over a sertain point it will not just flip back so easy. You heared they needed more than 8000kg force to lift it up again. Think about a square block of wood. Start tipping it untill it almost tips over. Than let go and it will tip back. But tip it just over its tipping point and it will ¨tip over all the way and not so easy to tip back again. |
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pumpjockey | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
When the boom is fully extended, and the pipes full of standardweight mud, the center of gravity or center of mass of the entire machine is hovering mere inches away from the envelope created by the outriggers. The footprint on a fully rigged pump is a clearly defined square/rectangular shape, while the center of gravity is more likely egg-shapped if viewed from above, owing to the weight distribution of the chassis and the forward position of the turret on the chasis. The greatest distance between the outrigger envelope and the C of G is likely when the boom is directly over an outrigger, ironically, this also is when the force on the outrigger pad is the greatest, you can't win for losing. The additional weight of system and mud at the boom tip, plus the fact that it was below grade and lifting it caused the radius (however slightly) to increase, imposing even more force, moving the C of G ever-so slightly further, and if a clamp happened to catch - even momentarily - on rebar. There you have it, the Perfect Storm for a big boom. The engineers ain't kidding when they give the maximum weight to be put on the tip, it's not a suggestion or guideline, it's a real number. Again, this is a great discussion point for certification. How many boom pump operators finished their high school Physics? This is a complicated concept, when looked at in depth. |
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rusty22 | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I have run the Putz 55m 260 flat out in the negative area alot doing mat pours, with a 5in 12 ft hose.So this brand pump would go over if you had a full 5in hose???? |
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Vasa | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I have run a Putz 200m3/h on the half volyme and earn twice the money and burn half the fuel... ;-) |
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pumpjockey | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
What is Alliance's maximum tip weight on the 55m? Add another 100 lb (45kg) to that and you're playing with fire. Being short-rigged on the off-side would definitely not help the situation in the case of overloading the tip and upsetting the C of G. We're talking very small differences here, but it may very well be 'the straw that broke the camel's back.' |
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rusty22 | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I guess 1- 4inch hose,and hope two seaguls doon't sit on the last section |
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Many | 09-19-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Now that's the funniest thing i'v heard in a long time |
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mytfynsunshine | 09-20-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
dcpu1 - Thanks for the break down of what actually happened & the recovery video. The pictures definitely make you wonder what went wrong, but I’ve always heard that assuming something just makes an ass of you & me. Anyhow, great respect to you & your company. By responding to this post you have possibly saved someone’s life in the future who may get themselves in this same situation. Thank you for stepping up. Not a lot of companies/managers would do that. |
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getRdone | 09-20-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
We can all speculate on what happen but the fact is that it was'nt good. Everyday we go out wether were experienced or not theres a chance. Maybe were tired or in a rush, contractor rushing us. When in dought dont or slow your pump down due to risky or dangerous situations. I myself go slower then most, but hey were in it to make money RIGHT? I was recently complimented on the smoothness of my jobs. I'm not trying to gloat but going a little easier on your equipment never hurts anything. You make more money, not so hard on your equipment, need i say anything on how much safer it is not rocking your boom cause your trying to impress the contractor or trying to rush or get the job done. Things canhappen at anytime and anyplace. As far as the counter balance is concern, I do believe tit helps to have full legs of fluid but what happens if you have been pumping all day and run low on fuel or had to washout once at a previous job. Then your suppost to say you cant do the job. I dont think so. If that wwas the case why buy any pump if their unsafe or why not have it stateted in the operators manual???????. I've personally never seen it. They test those things to over their limits. When in dought slow down, you'll be safer and on top make more money for you and your company, WE ALL NEED IT RIGHT NOW. To the operator I'm sorry and hope you will bounce back from this. God luck to all and be carefull my brothers. PUMP ON |
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Boomerz | 09-20-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
Just a thought with all the electronic gadgets on pumps nowadays why can't they have pressure sensors for floating outriggers that alert the operator's radio remote when an outrigger starts to float? any thoughts anyone.
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chongliyan | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
youre absolutely right boomerz,time for pump manufacturers to think of it,,,especially on large pumps. |
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bigstick | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I have a totally different take on this accident, I will not blame the operator, or the company. I blame the contractor for not allowing enough room to properly set up the boom. There is not a road, street, avenue, or municipality in North America where you cannot get a permit to close a road. Contractors are responsible for making sure the pump, or crane has enough space to do thier job safely. This is a prime example of a contractor being too cheap to properly allow the job to be completed safely. Sure it will cost the company a few dollars for a permit, but is it worth risking an accident of this magnitude in order to save a few dollars? If you can get permits to close roads in New York City like I have done several times, then I can assure you , you can get one on a side street in Canada. Just my take on the subject. We all keep preaching safety, but when it comes to spending a few dollars to do a job properly, then safety goes right out the window. Hopefully the operator is ok, and go back to work, lesson learned. |
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Many | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
stick,read pumpjockey's take on it.This was the point I was trying to make.There's are times when all conditions are met (the max's) and that one seagull landed on the boom.This is not a case of shortrigged,rather the perfect storm. |
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jeff_c2003 | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
was it Timmy Or Lane? I feel for whoever it was. I ran that same pump for yrs |
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Vasa | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
If you know them , you should know who operated that pump that day . Phone them and ask them , if it is important to know who "did'it" ! |
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jeff_c2003 | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I said I feel for whoever this happened to. I know both of dynamics 55 m operators this actually is not the first time I have seen this pump on its side. I'm just thankful that nobody was hurt. It could also happen to anyone of us. Calling the company at a time like this to find out what happened and who was the operator that day would be a foolish thing to do. I'm certain they are recieving many calls |
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Vasa | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I know it happened to Me , My 46 meter flipped and My friend
got hit by the boom and caught between the boom and the deck... |
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jeff_c2003 | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
sorry to hear that And hope your friend is ok today. This pump of dynamics has had issues since day one. I have seen the pin snap at the 4th and 5th section landing on a suspended deck imagine the steal coming at the placers like spikes thankfully nobody was injured one again |
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donnie | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
I would like know how they got it back down too! |
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pumpjockey | 09-21-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
donnie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NCFWRwz8TM dcpu1 describes it above, and Todd has created a second thread. Here's the text of dcpu1's post: Here is how we lifted it back onto its feet without any issues, 125ton crane with a sling around #1 section (main) and a wrecker with his sling around front short rigged outrigger to prevent it from coming back to quickly. Crane lifted main and the wrecker lowered his sling keeping the sling with minimal tension. DCPU |
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bigaboy | 09-28-2010 | reply profile send pm notify | ||||
jefc2oo3 this is Lane.It was neither Tim or myself that had the accident.Tim is back on a pump now and is operating my old 55m.I no longer work for Dynamic, I left last November. If the operator that had the incident wishes to disclose his name that is up to him. I would like to take this moment to say nice work to the owner and management of Dynamic,for posting what they deemed the cause of the accident. Furthermore, in referance to the stability of the 55m alliance, i just want to say that i have operated these machines for 6 years short rigging on the nonworking side 100s of times and never have I laid a boom over. |