R. O’Brien says…..Do you not think that it is time the Concrete Pumping companies start boycotting pump manufactures that subsidize our competitors with the following type deals... 1. 100% Financing… 2. 100% Lease programs. 3. Guaranteeing the loans and the leases to banks. 4. Providing parts and service on a special deal… No Pay! 5. Taking trades from them and not from you… Why? 6. Providing them pumps with no payments for months. We all know of these special deals… Let’s all start saying enough is enough! Let me know how you feel!

Richard is not alone in his thinking.

I think most of what your taking about happened over the last 7 years. I bet the companies coming in from China might follow the example, gladly give you a pump today for a payment in a year. Can we name the companies that do that? I know of two and both are not on my sponsor list.

If one of my sponsors have done that please don’t list them, we can talk about it but don’t list the companies. If they are not a sponsor than you can list them but do not slander them.

Christopher's Concrete Pumping  is a good guy to talk about this but I think he is getting so tired of yelling about it. I think he might of called it quits.

Anyway Richard Obrien was one of the 5 or 6 guys who started the ACPA, he is well respected and anything Richard does or talks about deserve much consideration.

I saw it for what it is; just more of your meretricious musing.

Was Richard O'Brien many years ago a Thomsen Dealer?

DIGGER

Yes, he was a Thomsen[sp?] dealer, then Schwing & Putz in that order. A REAL Pioneer in our industry.

so what if manufactors could only sell to exclusive pump companies. no concrete suppliers, general contractors or finishing contractors there would be more work, stabile prices and affordable insurance.

with the supply of pumps in the market and the economy being tits up we could fundamentally not need to any new equipment for a year. so if the manufactors where devisated would we feel any better on the outcome.

what if you could only pump for a company with the letter "K" in their name.............. come on.

There wont be many pumps sold in the near future and it won't do squat to raise the prices.

In order to raise the prices you need to RAISE THE PRICES.

If you tripled your prices tomorrow, and so did everyone else would there be less concrete pumped? How much?

The customers are not the reason for the low prices it is the fault of the pumpers.

NAME ONE pumping company that went out of business because they charged too much.

Still waiting ;~)

Yes, He was a Pioneer .......... But, was happy to be a "pumper / Dealer" and enjoy the pleasures that he now is un-happy about. Why the change?

It was wrong method of selling pumps ........ pumper /dealers ....... however, in the "olde days" it was the Pioneers like Richard who had the skills to buy a pump, then keep it operating and service it. Any other equipment house would stay clear of concrete pumps.

Send out an excavator and it won't dig the hard soil, then they send out a bigger excavator. Can't do that with a pump. So, in a way whilst it was not a smart business plan, at the time it worked.

Ian,

I don't want to play 'fan club' but ROB always had an equipment company, they were the exception, even as a pumper & dealer. Even early on they had a giant spare parts department, service people and dedicated sales people. It was a real equipment company that had various lines of equipment for sale. Not your basic pumper that is also a dealer.

OK....... off the soap box ;~)

Bob, I am aware of the well established outfit Richard O'Brien had in the late 70's, they were a dealer for Bennett Bros our Sidewinder Importer.

My question is what happened? Why would manufacturers not retain such a company. My thinking is that R O'Brien would have been better to have two free standing operations Pumping company and Equipment House.

The market is now much like the "Sub prime" housing, pumpers with equipment a few years old and they see the same equipment sold at auction for 40% less than what their present pay out figure is. Manufacturers with huge numbers of new pumps at "Grass" and trade in units.

It may take many years for all that stock to be absorbed. But in the mean time manufacturers can't just close the door, so they are going to do what ever to maintain cashflow ........ giving equipment out on "No down" cannot be a good way to maintain the bank account.  

Hey.........thats my soap-box! My turn. Buy cheaper $hit. Lower over-head by cutt'n payroll, Purchase All supplies from dollar stores, Find the cheapest Pumps available,Hard-face em, Furnish it with high-quality boom pipe, Grease the $hit out of it and Ride it like you stole it (Pump Like Hell) Someday we'll be Re-Pump'n trucks instead of Re-Trucking Pumps.

Be sure cheapa$$ pump has a Mack under it  

The auction deal is the big spoiler for sure. Today in FtWorth, TX a

2001 Cifa 44meter sold for $45,000

Now you tell me, what is a loan officer in a bank going to loan on a brand new one just like it? The days of the 100% loans are HIS TO RY!!! An officer of a financial institution is going to want a stable equity position on a pump; what is that number? 60% of new cost? 70% - or is it 40%

This is going to be a wild ride for sure. Word around the campfire is that the two biggies have over 200 units (used) trade in machines in stock.

I don't care what kind of a deal you got on your pump; it has turned into a sub-prime bit of iron.

So you are a pumping company; where do you stand? What is the worth of your company today? It is one hell of a lot smaller number than it was 1 1/2 years ago. Your debt to equity ratio just went TILT. 

The company that is holding the notes isn't happy either as the value and security of his loan is shot in the ass. Stay tuned. 

Ian,

ps; I bet ROB is doing better than most

Business as usual,those old enough know this.Pump manufacturers created what is today called "creative financing".I somehow think some of these guys had friends in wall street and tought them well.

Not only would a boycot be the order of the day but someone to look into these antics.Mr O'Brien probably could say alot more on this subject that would scare us.I bet if more owners stepped up to the plate and revieled all they knew it would be shocking.

But then again who am I?.Oh what the heck,I will throw this in as well.My personal beliefs is the manufacturers are the ones in control of the acpa.I would really like to see them disclose all the contributors $$$$.

Your Right

Sorry Many but i have to beg to differ on who runs the ACPA,just look at the safety information that comes from them.I won't say who it is but i did work for the company at one time.Oh what the heck it's ...... you figure it out,count the dots.His name is ... ........   No company names or any one else i hope thats ok Todd if not you can take out the dots.

OH BOY!  You guys got the hair on the back of my neck standing straight out.  If this ain't one sore subject to me, there isn't any.

I've been preaching this stuff myself, and it really pi--es me off.  Again, I feel a pump company should not be a dealer. PERIOD!  It makes the playing field un-even.  If I can buy top quality equipment for less than anyone around me (in my state), then I have an edge.  If you want to go around me you can.  But the manufacturer is going to cut me a check.  You see, I have a contract with the manufacturer and you don't.  This is wrong isn't it?

Well, that is what has been happening for a long time.  Oh.... If you want parts for your pump you also have to call me.  I get a cut there too.

This is a very good reason why more and more people are buying the new "lower cost" equipment.  So if you can buy at the same price or less than I can, your cost of doing busines has equalized with mine.  Right? 

I also agree with this price thing.  It has to go up.  By law, you can't agree to agree, but the prices have to come way up.  Nothing wrong with good clean competition, but I know the pumpers aren't making any money.  Thus they can't afford to pay their people what they deserve. 

I know Chris and I talk to him regularly.  He can share some stories that won't be posted on here.  He knows the UGLY of the industry and he is a victim of it.  My hat is off to him for trying to make it work.  Yes, talk to Chris when you have a chance.  And yes, he got tired of trying to make his point and I believe he has found better things to occupy his time..... for now.

Much of this reminds me of Mr. McNeilus in years past.  He manufactured concrete mixers.  He also owned a concrete company.  He used to go to a competitor and offer to buy them.  Once they would open their books to him he would make a rediculously low offer.  By then he knew all their costs and all their clients.  He would tell the owner that if he didn't sell to him he would put him out of business.  Still, if the guy wouldn't sell, Mr. McNeilus would build a plant across the street from him and yes, put him out of business. 

This is kind of the same muscle some of the big companies are doing to the little guys today.  Survival?  No, just stupidity and bad business.  If you don't think so, then look at what these pumps are going for at auction.  The market is flooded with repos'.  What did we expect?  It hasn't hit bottom yet and I hope the biggest pumpers in this country feel the full impact of their trade practices before it is over with.  I feel this is a wake up call for everyone.

The real shame is that these "Hot Shots" won't learn.  They are who they are.  They forgot how to sell on quality and service.  Just hop to the next town and whore it up for those guys too.  Right?  Goo luck my friends.  I hope you can weather this one.

What a mess they have made,now were paying to clean it up,its not just the pump-dealers (which I do not agree with) so much irresponsibility by everyone involved that its gonna take years to recover,so many pumps sold to buyers who had no clue what they were in for,just plain old reckless,and what happens when your reckless, you crash now everyone has to shoulder this burden of a industry in trouble,where will we be in 4 years probably in deeper s-it it doesnt seem to me that this is gonna change anytime soon so we better tighten the old belts up and hangon this ride is getting rougher all the time

What a mess they have made,now were paying to clean it up,its not just the pump-dealers (which I do not agree with) so much irresponsibility by everyone involved that its gonna take years to recover,so many pumps sold to buyers who had no clue what they were in for,just plain old reckless,and what happens when your reckless, you crash now everyone has to shoulder this burden of a industry in trouble,where will we be in 4 years probably in deeper s-it it doesnt seem to me that this is gonna change anytime soon so we better tighten the old belts up and hangon this ride is getting rougher all the time

when my local dealer offers token discounts and skrew lease deals and the manufactor still wants my business, they made it possible for me to survive and iam glad.

there is many people that have no need to have their own pump but its called more bucks than brains, so the dealers make a killing over and over.