I have always called them Trim Pipes myself. Todays pour Hayward, CA. 238/580 lane expansion, 300 yard abutment. 30 foot lightweight Trim Pipe. meets manufactures weight requirements. At BCP we cannot lift anything over thirty feet without crane assist or termination of employment may occur. Usually a contractor will say forget it we will use something shorter. Or I say sorry cant do it , they get pissed and call someone else. but my company backs me, and says bring it back to the yard. We dont need to damage our equipment or endanger lives. Everyone have a great week ! 

3

headed out ...  with the ole 42x .20H for some fun in the sun....lol

nice and clean like always, slowly but surely the 34 i run is geeting there, some serious scatches but almost concrete free

3,

OK, I have a question for you, two really.

Are you ready? Here we go ;~)

1. Your boom is supposed to have a sticker on the tip that states the maximum weight that may be suspended from that boom. What is that weight on your boom?

2. Please, for everyones edification: List all the components that you hang from the boom with your 30ft wall pipe and their weight - then add the weight of concrete within the entire suspended system.

How does that total compare to the number on your boom.

The reason that I am asking you is that no matter what, you will (a) be smart enough to calculate the answer - (b) you always tell the truth.

I had a job just today where the concrete foreman" SAYS" he told dispatch he had a 30' wall ! My work order just says "wallpipe" so I brought my 4" 10 footer! And I run a Schwing 47m with a 215 lb tip limit. Then the argument started!,But I got Kneerick to bring his 37m and his 4"15 footer,and paid a pipefitter out of my pocket to weld on a lightweight 10" section. Problem solved! We now have a 25' wall pipe that one man can carry,(still too heavy for my pump,with reducer,short hose and pipe) but a happier customer

Mudslinger,

That is a good example of knowing your pumps limitations and making a customer happy at the same time.

WAY TO GO !!! ;~)

1. Your boom is supposed to have a sticker on the tip that states the maximum weight that may be suspended from that boom. What is that weight on your boom?

376

2. Please, for everyones edification: List all the components that you hang from the boom with your 30ft wall pipe and their weight - then add the weight of concrete within the entire suspended system.

30' 4" Trim Pipe :131 lbs

5-4 reducer: 15-20 lbs

3 clamps: 2-3 lbs ea.

short hose: 20-25lbs.

185 total with out mud

concrete: est. @ 30'- 4" pipe capped off weight  not falling weight 480lbs.

with mud: 665

How does that total compare to the number on your boom.

it is higher if concrete is full in all attachements and capped off . not falling

The reason that I am asking you is that no matter what, you will (a) be smart enough to calculate the answer - (b) you always tell the truth.

3

Thanks, I hope that everyone is paying attention.

Here is a guy that I consider to be one of the safest operators out there [and for sure the cleanest] and he has almost double the factory weight limit on his boom.

This is one of those things that you don't really spend a lot of time thinking about. It can and does happen to us all. Overloading a boom is typical, but not good.

When you are calculating the weight on your boom do it like the people that built the boom. Total weight of all components FULL OF CONCRETE. Since none of the operators I have ever known or heard about are engineers; we need to pay attention to their limits. Those of you that do have an engineering degree already stay within the specs. Of this I am sure.

While each of you has their own special way of going about this 'wall pipe' deal, that is understandable. Just don't think that because you have gotten away with this overloading up to now that you will continue to get away with it.

When the boom structure fails and someone is hurt or killed, you killed them because you are smarter than the guy that engineered your machine.

I wonder how the jury will feel about that?

I know your insurance carrier won't be happy.

Bob, have you ever used a Blue Line instead of a trimmie pipe,they use this in the TN. area.It has it's pros and cons just like every thing else but very little weight???

I don't know what you are calling a 'blue line'

Its the the blue nylon water line about 8" wide! .You fish it in between the rebar1 If you don't get it right, it swells up like a sausage and you have to cut a slice in it to remove it! Been There, Done That! The current concrete help can't comprehend the physics But it works when it works.

I gottcha.

Once upon a time it was the contractors responsibility to set hoppers and

tremmies along a wall or in a column. We have since taken over the task of penetrating the wall so that the concrete does not free-fall through the rebar. That was very nice of us; or very stupid - or some of both. Yes it is easier for them if we do it. And along with that doing we assumed the liability for all the creative ways and means that it has taken to accomplish that task.

I wonder if we are being properly  compensated for that extra liability?

I was not quite sure what the rules were so I asked  one of the smartest guys in our industry (besides Bob)and here is what he said.

Here is my question and here is Robs response.

Todd

 Ok so if someone has a 20’ or say 30’ pipe and its under the weight requirements for that pump its ok? So a 50’ or 60’ if under the weight requirements that is ok? Does the weight of the Concrete have any thing to do with it?  Is it the pipe weight plus the concrete weight or just the weight of the tremmie pipe? 

Sorry I just want to learn so when people talk about it I understand what they are talking about.

Rob

Hi again.  It is all about total weight, including concrete.  Little else matters.  I'm not sure what a 50 foot pipe could be filled with that would meet the requirements for weight, but if it did, it would be fine.  The boom steel doesn't care what is causing the load. 

Bob, regarding your question: Is there a weight that is an industry standard, or is it different for the various brands and boom sizes?

It used to be 376 pounds, but then, in about 1998, Putz and Schwing screwed it all up by making 'skinny-pipe' booms that required much less weight hanging from the boom.  That's why the CPMA dictates that you MUST have a tag on the end of the boom saying what the max weight is, and three examples of system that could meet that weight limit.

Don't worry about bothering me.  I'm glad to help.

Rob

Here is what I think is happening, many operators and owners think they can hang up to the min boom weight off of their pump and that is true but you have to also add in the weight of the concrete in that system. If you can hang 376 pounds off of your pump that is system and concrete not just system.

I don’t know if you void the warrantee of the pump when you do it but I know you have much more liability in court.

Lol I am sorry but i called the guy Rob but his name is Rob Edwards.

http://www.concretepumping.com/dictionary/index.php/Edwards%2C_Rob

ok ok,I had to ask.

Engineer spec's max 10' drop on concrete.You now have a 30' wall,mmmm.This now means a 20' pipe plus a 4' hose right?.Corps jobs are generally  4' drop.

Now lets figure in the factory says max weight is?.Is this fact based on flat boom vs short boom?.I have yet to see factory spec's or weight curve on this,they do everthing else.

This is complex mathmatics I know,but a one size fits all senerio?.If the manufacturer is going to place weight limits they should also have the curve in which the operator is required to follow.

This is not a one size fits all  senerio's.

I am still new to the pumping world but, I do know that I enjoy it a lot. My 2007 Putz says 365 pounds max weight limit including all attachments hoses and reducers when full. I also have a tag on my turret that says max boom hoses length 4m.

Tell me if I am wrong because I have no idea what a wall pipe or "tremmie" is, although I am guessing it is a lot of pipe put together in order to reach the bottom of a tall column.

98% of my pours is residential walls and footings so I don't really get to do much of the big fun stuff but I hope to someday. A question I have is that if you are picking up say 40' of pipe attached to your boom, if you could keep the fly section ( I was told that is what the last section is called ) vertical with no horizontal pressures applied would the weight limit still be applied?

Here is some info' that I found in our 'pumping articles' section [left side of page under used pumps add]

http://www.concretepumping.com/dictionary/index.php/How_Much_Hose

 Slinger

If the decal says 350# [or whatever] then that is it. No 'if I do it this way' or 'How about if the tip is like this" about it.

Think of it as a fixed number - not to exceed, and it gets easier.

If the guy that built it says 222# then that would be enough reason for me.

i think when OE responds you will find the weight of the pipe.  it is probably about 35lbs maybe less. i am not saying it is all right but i know the pipe is light.  i was the one who told his company were to buy them.

 art

As far as I am concerned, THAT is the way it should be done. Less swinging, easier to spot and it keeps the weight down. Pure professionalism. ;~)

Absolutely Art

That 3' hose is the cat's meow.

We welded chains of equal length on both sides to the ferrule on our short hoses. This prevents hose stretch and premature failure.The chains MUST be of equal length or they'll cause the pipe to lean toward the long chain side

OK Is this a stupid question or not? you use 5" trimee 50' long but you are pumping at a snails pace and the pipe does not fill up with concrete it is just falling through the pipe and the pipe is within the weight limits what weight does falling concrete create on this boom ? I am not a scientist or engineer so I am not being a smartass I am asking probably a stupid question. Now I know some will ask how do you keep it from filling up ? with experience and paying attention you can because I have done it,you can hear hear when it falling or it starts to stack up in the pipe,I would not recommend this being done but it has been done many times with no problems with a pump I ran for almst 10 years.

look not to be rude but i was always taught that a solid stream was the way to go easy to move and no jumping. as to the question of a 50 foot tremmie there is no right way you have to use the blue line. it sucks but the pressure.( waLL ) out of the pipe on the she boltes as you go up will brake .  call it what you will trust no one but yourself. when i doubt pull out.

or

if you like secure it to the rebar just like those casons. when you move to the next do the same all the waight is on the steel and not on the boom.

that all depends on what you are pumping,if you are pouring a drill shaft who cares if its a steady stream you cant always have a steady stream,that would be nice but I live in the real world,I was asking the question what is the effect of falling concrete on the boom I think none but that is why I was asking not what I should do and not do I know that,it was just a technical question I have often wandered about without a good answer

Call the engineering department at Putz and ask them. They are as smart as they come and will give you a good answer.