There has been some discussion lately about "Super Booms" or "Texas Booms".

I am refering to the practice of having a crane support extra horizonal pipe sections to increase the overall reach of a boom pump. This discussion is NOT about crane supported treeme pipe for extending the down reach of the attached system.

I am looking for some feedback on this subject. What is your take on this practice? How do you each handle this within your company?

My attitude is that even though it may be a handy solution to an immediate problem it is probably a bad idea. The potential for disaster is too great for the pumper. The contractor may see the benefit; the pumper should see only the potential liability.

What are your feelings?

I agree with you.  It should not be done.  I would, though, be interested in how they are supporting the additional pipeline, how much they have out, and how they are plugging into it.

It does not seem like a risk a company owner would be eager to take on.

In California this is done quite often. Just last week my son 23 in the buz for 5 years, did exactly that on a high rise in dtwn San Diego. with his pump extended out they hooked a pipe to his pipe then with a strap on the pipe extention that was hooked to a crane. As he moved the boom the crane moved with it. The part he said was hard was trying to communicate with his oiler and the carne operator and run his sticks at the same time. He did'nt feel very safe.

Back when a 65ft boom was the norm, and we were all grasping at ways to make pumping/not dumping the way to go; this was common practice. Today the 60 61 63 & 65 meter booms have extended our reach and our insurance companies and concerned owners have extended our grasp of the dangers.

I think that part of the reason that this 'superboom' practice is still in use is 99% of the time it works....................... that day.

The damage to the pump boom and the crane boom are not fatal at that time. The respective machines finish the pour and then go on to do other work. The stress or flaw being not apparent and instead of crashing to the ground; waits, like a cancer to become obvious at some future time. It is sometimes hard to remember where the trouble started as you are confronted with (three months later) your failed boom laying on who knows what - or whom.

I wish everyone that has had one of their booms in use as a 'superboom' would have it inspected by a real professional. I don't mean a person that has taken a class somewhere and has a bit of paper that says he is a certified boom inspector. I am talking about a real professional.

I hope that the ACPA or the manufactures association, CPMA, comes out solidly against this practice. It will then be much easier for the pump salesman to say "No, sorry, our industry association prohibits that."

We really know better.

Separate related question.

What authority should take an official stance on this issue?

Since the issue is predominantly an issue of stresses placed on the boom structure; should the CPMA be the people that say "yea or nay"?

I mean really, now think about this.

SEPERATE / RELATED ISSUE

Should the length of the superstructure be a deciding factor? Should the pour rate? Is this relative?

Is the whole idea just bad business?

whatcha think??????????????????

I am lost we do this a lot and how is there stress on the boom structure. we have pipe secured to an I beam we use a hose to connect to the pipe and the crane supports the i beam. there is no extra stress on our boom. i can see if you have a couple of pieces of hose in between and they are filled with concrete. but one hose should be fine. would love to know about this subject. thanks

Splash, (good name given the topic)

As I posted before, 99% of the time it works just fine................ BUT.

We (pumpers) have enough exposure every day to make a normal person just scream. First, you have a job pushing rocks thru pipes, then you dangle hoses full of concrete over peoples heads-cars-houses, etc. All that is really crazy, but you are for all practical purposes more or less in control of your own destiny. Now, since that isn't scary enough you want to have a crane operator, that is not AT ALL under your control or employ and have him attach HIS crane to some system hanging off of your boom.

So you are pouring along and you zig and he doesn't. Perhaps he just holds still, perhaps he booms the other way. What part of boom stress is covered by your manufactures warranty?

1 5" x 12' hose or 1 5x4 reducer and one 10' 4" hose............. hanging straight down. That is it. Read your safety information you received when you purchased your pump. It doesn't say that you can tweak your boom sideways or assume a greater load for a little bit. It doesn't say you can stretch the hose 10 or 20 feet beyond your tip elbows. You can't. And it doesn't say anywhere in your operators manual that your operator is smart enough to even know what stress he is placing on the boom. He doesn't need to know that because he should never do it.

This superboom deal probably won't snap your boom in half or turn it into a bannana, but it might.

What do you charge for the additional risk?

What does the disclaimer look like to free you from the potential liability?

This drives me nuts. (I know, short trip) but really, let us just think about your 10 or 20 feet of hanging connective hose. If it is beside your boom it is pulling it to that side. If it is in front of your boom it is efectively adding length , and LOTS of extra stress to the boom.

So my question to you is.

How can it NOT damage or jeopardize the structural integrity of your boom???

AND REMEMBER... YOU DO THIS ON PURPOSE

AND FOR FREE!

For any of you legal eagles out there. My postings are my own personal opinion. Nothing more and nothing (well sometimes) less. We are all entitled to that. Unless Bu$h changes it with a signing statement.

;~)

i still don't see the added stress. i have read my manuals and know that the total weight is 376 lbs. i have been in this buss. probably longer than 99.9% of the people on this site. i have seen more stuff done a lot more unsafew than this. i don't believe the manufacture has ever rated the sideways stress on a boom. i see operators drag hose sideways for people. i am not saying your wrong or right. i totally know it is your opinion. and you have a right to it. i guess we have been lucky. but if it can happen i know cause i don't believe to much has hapend that hasn't happend to my company. if something can happen it has to us. i don't post much.

I wish you well. May your luck continue forever.

A very smart man once told me something that has made my job easier, our customers safer and our accidents fewer. It is:

PREVENT THE PREVENTABLE PROBLEMS

Bob, I see your point, but this can be a safe and effective method of placement if done properly; without any damage to the boom.  It is really no different than hooking in to a mini-placer or slick line.  A double ended hose is attached to the tip 90 this hose is placed on the deck and then two or more hoses are attached (laying on the deck) between the tip hose and the pipeline.  The pipeline is attached to a spreader bar which is supported by the crane, with a 90 and hose hanging from the spreader bar(thats what we call this setup in Texas) the hose man is required to push the hose to evenly place the concrete, and the boom must be unhooked from the spreader bar prior to any excessive movement to avoid any side/tension loads.  When done in this manner I do not see how any additional stress is placed on the boom.  However, I do know of several crane manufactures that will not allow this due to the momentary stresses placed on the tower crane.  Of course there is an increased risk of damage if the crane swings erratically or a mechanical/human (now electrical) failure with the crane; but if done properly  I don't see a problem.  The company you are currently employed by did this fequently(not following this procedure) on a job off 10th St. and the same unit is still in service.  Were there any problems found when the required inspections were performed?

I will say that the company I work for no longer does this.

That fact makes me very happy.

It is not a question of who has been around the longest. I have seen a lot and learned a lot, things we used to do with the challenges or thompson would drive people crazy today. if we evolve with the times it doesn't matter. you mention pulling 5 trailers in alaska is it dangerous? how many acccidents are there cause of this. you ca't go by that. why is it legal to have triples in some states and not in others. my license says i can pull doubles and triples. i am in california we can't pull triples. it comes down to regulation of what the state wants. why is there different weight limits in different states. so that argument has no point to this. this procedure when done right is safe. you talk about preventing the preventable. there are a lot more things that can go wrong everyday that no one does anything about. we inspect our booms regualry and no problems. i would like to know if that boom that did that job on 10th was inspected and if there were any problems.

If you would like to purchase that, or any other machine, you will receive a copy of all of the boom inspection and repair reports with the pump. Until that time I don't think you, or anyone else is entitled to that information.

Ok here is the deal, I have info coming but here is the what all the info says from what I have heard.

Schwing, Putz and the crane Association as well as the ACPA are completely against the practice. NO WAY NO HOW type of thing.  I will be posting all the info in the next couple of weeks but until than contact Scwhing, Putz and anyone who is in the leadership in our industry.

OK,

So if what Todd says is true............ whatcha gonna do??

If the CPMA says it is 100% against and the ACPA says it is also 100% against WILL YOU STOP??????

My best guess is that if, after hearing the CPMA and the ACPA and the crane people all came out against this practice, you do it and someone is hurt, you will be way screwed.

please don't do it any more.

Thanks

when the the you know what hits the fan this will be the responsibility of the pump operator.  why would you put your career in jeopardy?

dont need any more b.s to deal with.mixers are bad enough to worry about,let alone crane ops too.not to mention the death factor goes way up.  only an opinion

Umm ever ran a boom that din't fold up right? well a concrete boom was not meant to pull system out of a building. People that think well im to good for that to happen to me or Ohh it will be okay we will see you in a pic soon enough. Bob as far as the texas boom goes i flat refuse to hook a 52m 5 section or a 31m telescopic boom to anything like that. The ONLY thing mine are hooked to is system and or a spider. These newer pumps they make these days are light weight booms you side stress them one time and it will SHOW UP DOWN THE ROAD.

Good to hear that you all have such wonderful opions.  Especially you Bob.  It is not a regular practice, in fact was only done once this way.  The rest of the time I unhook and go to another pipe in the wall while the crane would move or take out the one I just released from.  They are anchored to the top of the forms and I have no extra weight on my boom.  I know the crane operator very well and we both work for the same Company.  Also had gone over with saftey and super before this was done.

 Ernie

I saw that in your profile. I know J. E. Dunn is a very good company, and maybe it is different with you all working for the same company........ don't know

This is scary stuff Ernie, be very careful, PLEASE ;~)

Thanks for all the wonderful remarks.   About the picture, it is not a regular practice.  A lot of thought and planning went into it to make it safe as possible.  To include knowing the tower crane operator, going over with the super, labor forman, safety man.  The rest of the time we use pipes for trimmy, and they are anchored to the top of the wall forms at different lenghts.  Unhook from one and go to the next.  With all of the calculations no additional weight was added to my boom on this case.  Just wanted and got lots of great remarks.  Thanks all.  

Wow! 

the thread...it's........back!

Raymond

Almost two years later.

It just goes to show you that we keep doing the same things and trying to reinvent the wheel and making the same questionable moves.

There is little that is truly new in the world. ;~)