The demise of Concrete Pumping Companies based in Colorado is due to the continuing decline of the pricing structure of the pumping industry. It seems like we are in a contest to see who will be the last one standing and who will receive a trophy for the last man standing before they also go by the wayside. Robinson gone – Pumpco gone – Lucht gone…Who will be the next one? Brundage – Bone, Southwest, Patriot, O’Brien, Calco… The list goes on in Colorado. Who are you voting on to go next? It’s the same story everywhere, just a different state, only the names change. We need a change from the top down in order for our industry to survive. This also includes the manufacturers that helped create part of this problem. Our company has spent thousand of dollars in an effort to present a cost analysis of a pump company and what it needs to charge in order to survive and make a profit. We have helped put on Seminars in Colorado and Las Vegas, also a program on the costs of Pumping to outline what it takes to make a profit. This has been made available to everyone in our industry. Companies cannot operate like a Walmart and pump hundreds of jobs on a flat rate basis in order to make a profit, because now that is not possible. This is due to the reduction of the housing industry and a fast decline in the commercial market. The market needs to realize that your utilization cannot and will not be 110% to 120% in today’s market. You must establish a budget and pricing based on a possible 40% maybe if you are lucky. Let’s have a contest on the above Colorado companies. Which one will be next to fail. The company naming that company correctly will receive a free Cost of Pumping program. “What’s in your wallet?”. Requirements of the Contest Company Name Representative Company to Fail We might as well make a game out of it. Maybe then someone will start paying attention. Thank you. Richard O’Brien

http://www.concretepumping.com/dictionary/index.php/What's_in_your_Wallet_by_Richard_O'brien_2009

hehehe,but I wont say publically.

I think that the prize should be round trip airfare to the Ritchie Brothers Auction that has 500 pumps.

Maybe someday Colorado pump companies will pay a decent wage.   

The demise is nationwide Richard.
You are correct on your utilization thoery (it is only theory since no one has ever practised it).

If utilization was based on 4 hours companies would have made "bank" during the good times and could afford to keep up the equipment and pay thier help properly and maybe not be in foreclosure today.

More and business plans were built on absurdity not to mention the chest beating and look who has the biggest you know what.

I mentioned Contractor Blue Book Rental rates 20 - 30 years ago no one listened. That publication takes a view of costs associated with ownership depreciation of equipment.

Our industry was so far out of range of costs associated and what they stated rental rates should be based on standard accounting methods. Most other industries were right in line with published rental rates.....Hmmm

Dire times are here and what you see is what you get, the amount of machines running today is all that is needed. I suspect that is between 1/4 to 1/3 of what were running two years ago in this industry.

If we had a 4% growth rate now we have a 1% growth rate that equates to a shedding of 75% of required equipment.

Lets take into consideration that the first thing contactors cut out of jobs is PUMPS if at all possible.

Art - I'll up to you $110.00 in preferred stock.

Richard /  Dick /  Art,

seems to be a constant thread in many different posts,    the complete lack of ""leadership"" in this industry.

I would like to see anyone let me know about a new idea,  or something, anything, out of the ACPA in the past few years.   Get tired of reading the same old, same old,  that's why they didn't get my renewal dues this year.

Maybe it might be a good thing for a couple of other big players to go south,     it might open up a vacumn at the top,   or finally sink in to the ones remaining that "something ain't right"!!!!!!!!!!!!

steve

tristatepumping@gmail.com

guys like me fall back on thier ability to finish concrete so if you have to throw in the pump to beat out the other guy or to bring the job in at a cost that the customer can afford to pay and getting paid is mostly importaint now than getting stiffed. well the pump is just a tool and the contractor makes the money and can decide on how to ring you out or buy their own pump for a tax write off. pumping was a way to seperate me from the meat heads but now they are out of business also so iam filling in ha ha.

 "Throw in the pump to beat out the other guy"... sounds familiar?

 Just because the bill was paid does'nt mean that money was made. Some people may never grasp the fact that they're actually "Paying" to be on jobs!

The majority of all participants agree the patient is Sick. However as an industry you can not just keep saying the industry is sick, and expect wellness. A doctor needs to drill down with some pertinent questions. So an assessment of the pump companies is first and foremost, do we have a pulse, blood pressure, temp, etc. are the kidneys malfunctioning, due to high pressure in the heart or is there a clot in the lungs. Is the panaceas shutting down or is it the gall bladder? Perhaps an appendectomy is needed. Maybe just of case of overweight!

So we ask a few questions and develop a matrix of different type players in the market:  Could be the problem, what would be the solution?  Following is the quick and reduced list.

(Each will price their business 3 different ways.)

1.     Pumper number 1:  Here we have a true pumper. His sole focus is the pumping business. This is all he does. Call him a pure bred pumper. This is a stand alone business for him. 

a.       To the market

b.      Cash flow

c.      For Profit….only sustainable plan for the future. (very few doing this) read last paragraph and sentence.

2        Pumper number 2:  Equipment dealer / parts,

a.      To the market

b.     Cash flow

c.     Equip sales

3        Pumper number 3:  other business,-real estate, other construction

a.       To the market

b.     Cash flow

c.     Tax benefits

4        Pumper number 4: ready mix, caisson drillers, etc

a.       To the market if they can

b.     Cash flow

c.     To generate other business even to the point of giving the pump away

5        Pumper number 5: concrete contractor, similar to above.

a.      Price to the market if he can

b.     Cash flow

c.     To try and beat the competition out: for more of his other/real work.

In a down trending market pumpers 2,3,4,5 destroy the market for the rental Pumper Number One. The next question that needs to be asked is: who did the manufactures sell all the pumps to over the last 5 years. Does pumper 2,3,4,5 have a desire to improve the market with safety, certified operators and all the items that Number One Pumper would consider necessities?

I applaud Mr. Obrien for speaking up on the subject, however when I placed a call to his dispatch they could not or would not send me a price sheet and would not or could not quote a price for a 40 meter boom pump.

In addition I applaud Mr. Obrien for offering the information on the costs. I truly believe that that is not the issue. Most everyone operating pumps knows the cost. It is the revenue that is elusive.

Pump companies as a whole are not covering their costs but subsidizing, with other revenue.  

Possible solutions:  The ACPA should post a map of the United States with a standard price sheet for the industries standards units. This could be done with little or no effort. An adjustment could be made for the difference in union vs. non union operator.  Mileage etc.  It could also take into account the different geographical areas of the US and the utilization of the equipment during different times of the year. Certainly if a base price of a 36 meter is 140.00 per hour and 3.00 per yard. Then a unit would rent for more in Alaska or Maine then it would in Phoenix. Contractors could go to a website and see the average printed price sheets for the size they desired.  (Scroll through a U haul rental website, for ideas.)

In addition the manufactures should relinquish the competitive disposition to create absolutely every size machine in the book. Just for an exercise start at a 26 meter and count the units to 60 meter. (30?) This creates a tool for the contractors to use against the renter. Why not sell 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60.  8 different sizes.  Sure this would take some time to implement, but it’s an idea.

In any given geographic area the companies need to share their utilization on a quarterly basis. (Similar to the airlines in the number of seats flown). This needs to be shared with the ready-mix suppliers as the number of concrete trucks will be involved in the equation.  Example would be 1 pump per 10 ready mix trucks. If the utilization is not running greater than 75 %  the companies in a given area can simply inform the manufactures that units are not necessary in that market. As in the example above: the ACPA could without much effort post the number of pumps in the 50 major cities in the US. (That would be scary) I am sure with little or no effort the ready-mix associations would provide plants and truck numbers.

An example would have been this Robinson Company in Denver. Where did he get his market information to purchase 12 machines to do poured walls in 2006 and 2007.  Who ever sold him those machines not only mislead him, but to the detriment of the other companies in Colorado.

The ACPA should be for the concrete pump companies and the manufactures should step aside. 

All of the above will certainly meet opposition, but then the only way to get change is to change.

In the final analysis, most pumpers will not post their prices and stick with them out of FEAR.

 Pogo was the title and central character of a long-running (1948-75) daily comic strip created by Walt Kelly.  His words: “we have met the enemy and it is us.”

hey double T just got another customer call to bid work so iam not crying on the back end off a dry hopper. people know i can turn out the goods. remember the post about the sales guy wanting to improve business and the pump jockey giving him a raft off crap, well see who is successful in the end when all smart asses go out of business.

We have operated our family business in N. TX. for 15 years. We have rarely worked our price. Because of reliabbility and customer service we have survived. Sure, some the CO. based companies have tried to move into our area for $200-$300 a pour. But how can they make money driving in from 90 miles away at these prices. The bottom line is they CAN'T! Because we have stuck to our price structure (Hr/Yd/4 hr min/Prime) our machines are nearly paid off. We can afford to wait out the storm and will still be here when it's over. Something we all need to keep in mind: Geting the job at all costs is not always cost effective. Just my $.02.

been in the DFW area for a while and in the town of burleson there is one 40M concord that belongs to the concrete plant. prices are $400- to $500- minumin service. they will travel and yea knock out big yardage that i cannot do but i could provide a line pump for say half price so if i worked every day i could make a fair living. i do notice that they do not use much block that would make a high return project. is that market wide open for trailers or am i missing something here.

 Eugene, I'm sorry for using what you said as an example. It was'nt directed at you exactly, I know you're a pump/finish guy and your trailor pump is just what you said, "a tool". My comment was for the ones who send out a machine for less than what it costs them in wages/fuel etc. (paying to be on a job) The smartasses will make it Eugene, It's those dumbasses that wont. 

mmm

Well Mr O'Brien your more into the know than we are.What's your top pick's? Would be interesting to know your thoughts.

The World According to me…thanks to Richee Bros.
(Just for you Richard)

This is for owners price guide for the 2nd week of April 2009.

With this mornings auction results means this…
Rock Valve 1200 units
(no one wants 900s reduce used prices by 40%)

Schwings 32s old style    $20,000.00
Schwing 32X 1993-1995 $35,000.00
Schwing 32X 1996-1999 $42,500.00
Schwing 32X 2000-2002 $62,500.00
Schwing 32X 2003-2004 $85,000.00
Schwing 32X 2005-2007 $117,500.00
Schwing 32X 2008-2009 $129,500.00
Schwing 2009 new $385,000.00

Schwing 36M old style    $30,000.00
Schwing 36X 1993-1995 $50,000.00
Schwing 36X 1996-1999 $72,500.00
Schwing 36X 2000-2002 $95,000.00
Schwing 36X 2003-2004 $112,500.00
Schwing 36X 2005-2007 $130,000.00
Schwing 36X 2008-2009 $147,500.00
Schwing 2009 new $450,000.00 plus
Putzmeister take off 35% of the prices above. Cifa take 47% off of prices above.
My next forecast is trending DOWN
Now with Pumpco’s hitting the markets take these numbers and REDUCE 35%-50%.
The Korean machines will get truck values only plus 10%. Chinese machines chassis value less 10%.

My guess is Patriot, then followed by Obrien's. 

So if I am right I get a jacket or something right?