Ha!  Cool pic.

I don't see much slack in the hose from the placing boom to the Texas Boom.

Taken from that far back, are there safety slings?

I think it should have been a longer placing boom, it's tying up a crane anyways.

 A mini-placer would have been the more professional solution.

Given the rectangular foot print of the structure, a second location for the placing boom would be the ultimate, use one of the 2 cranes ('Texas Boom' holders) to fly it back and forth between pours.  But obviously the engineer didn't even think about how the concrete would be placed.

Not an example of a safe pour,sorry

very cool.

thats an example of getting it done with what you got.

It never ceases to amaze me that stupid people continue to do stupid things.  As long as this stupidity continues, people will continue to get hurt and killed.

I guess thats one way to do it but why not just run hose on the deck are those guys that lazy. It only looked like 60ft????

Good Job

hey big stick... or should it be BIG MOUTH? you must be one of those miserable operators that smells like booze every morning on the job. keep up the good work.

For your information there skippy, I very seldom drink, and I also have enough experience and common sense to not do dumb shit like whats in your picture.

Some day maybe you'll learn something if you can read and comprehend safety, or maybe not?

to pumpjockey and many..... i poured 25.. that's 25 floors in 10 1/2 months. the same way every floor. have you ever did anything like that? don't talk SAFETY to me. as far as tying up the crane to pour.. LOOK.. we were the only ones on the jobsite.. we pour  the slabs at night (while you house slabbers are asleep) and the columns and shafts midday.

yeah SKIPPY you sound real intelligent. you must be one of those house slab operators or maybe they stepped you up to block fill. which one is it?

I don't think they want you to drag hoses across they're post tension cables. It get's special inspectors all worked up.

I believe the reason they are saying it is unsafe is because obviously the crane is taking some of the pipe weight off the deck. By looking at the pics, it looks like there is about 30 feet or so between the slings that is sagging and causes alot of pressure on the clamps in the middle. So technically, it is unsafe.

we used bolt on clamps on the pipe. i can take criticism if it is done the right way. thats the way you do it PINK PANTHER. you sound like good management material.

Yeah, thanks 'MUDDY', you're my friggin' hero now. NOT!! When you own a bolt in the goddamn machine you run, maybe, just maybe, I might have an inkling of respect for you. As far as right now, you're just another friggin' Primadonna Pumper.

Thanks "MUDDY" I would not want any management position, I love operating a pump and do not believe I would stop to take a position like that.

you read my mind PUMPDONKEY. that's what i thought about you.

Wow, everybody look at me, I can do a completely unsafe job and have the balls to try to convence everybody its ok to do dumb shit on a regular basis.

I dont care what you do.  however there are alot of young operators on here, and I dont think bragging about doing something stupid is a very good thing for them to see.

Bigstick, you are right, that is not the safest way to do it. I have always used saucers under the clamps and then plywood on the deck to help slide the pans. That is the best way I know of besides another tower for the boom. Muddy, the bolts can break, especially with the amount of force that the clamp is under in that situation.

What size placing boom is that? Just curious

go back to the first grade and learn how to spell "CONVINCE"..... bigprick.. sorry i meant bigstick.

Get a bigger boom!

Stick

You said you were going to be good,imagine that.I can see we have an engineer in our midst.I can also see where another mast and boom would be in order.Perhaps he should send that pic to the manufacturer and acpa for there opinion.

Well Many, you know as well as I do this is NOT safe.  You said it first.  You are alot like me, when we see something wrong, we try to inform less experienced people that this kind of stuff dont fly.

The fact is there are almost 4000 members on here, and probaly several thousand more lurkers.  When some guys see people doing things like this they think its ok.

Hooking a boom to a hundred feet of pipe and suspending in the air will never be safe or accepted by the ACPA.

Muddy, I wish you all the best, and I hope your owner has lots and lots of liability insurance, because someday he will need it.

it is unsafe anyway you look at it, hell a texas boom rig isnt a accepted practice and it has a i-beam to add support for the pipe so the pump never sees it, this is stupid, the easiest way isnt always the best way, so "MUDDY" you keep getn her done on somebody elses future scrap metal you keep posting crap like that and when you lose the job you have it will be awful hard to find another one, you seem like one of those guys who speaks and post pics without thinking and doing stupid shit on jobs before you weigh the damages that could occur, but hey its not my iron so f#ck it up theres plenty used shit out there you can find.

Big stick, i agree with you....I was forced to use one of those by a contractor in Phoenix years back. It was built by a reputable pump company here. The crane company and operators wouldn't even use it at first. They use the pump to control it, and one pour it hit the deck and shot off it when it plugged. One time it plugged on prime and blew the piping right off the 61m. I eventually left pumping(after 10 years) mainly cause of that job. We were certified but that didnt seem to matter what i said. Hopefully the industry and OSHA will grow some ***** and stop this crap.

I do not believe this is an opportunity for any of us to be disrespectful to Muddy. Cant we talk about this and be nice and professional?

Lets see what my safety guy says about this.

Oh and Muddy thanks for posting this so we can talk about it.

Why not use a mini placer?  From the looks of the pics with the boom extend out you can reach half the pour. I can see you don't want to lay system down on the post tension. But you are using a expensive tower crane to do something that can be avoided. Not to say when you have a plug and all that pipe starts wiping around hanging there. Why not start the pour with the boom so finishers have access then hook into the mini placer where you can't reach and finish it out with the boom? That way the tower crane is free to do his thing and you only need one pick.

"MUDDY" "to pumpjockey and many..... i poured 25.. that's 25 floors in 10 1/2 months. the same way every floor. have you ever did anything like that? don't talk SAFETY to me. as far as tying up the crane to pour.. LOOK.. we were the only ones on the jobsite.. we pour the slabs at night (while you house slabbers are asleep) and the columns and shafts midday." Tell me more please..

This is commonly known as using a 'superboom' in most of the U.S. It is forbidden by the pump manufacturers and the crane manufacturers. Experience has taught us that there are hundreds of cracks that appear in the crane after doing a building where they used superbooms on each floor. Furthermore, the crane is run by one person and the placing boom by another. If their communications fail or one operator makes the wrong move for even a moment, the crane, the placing boom, or both, come crashing down. Absolutely dangerous, absolutely forbidden. Its just a matter of time until somebody dies doing it.

explain the difference between this and a '50 trimmy for caisons

thats an acceptable answer Todd. (in a perfect world) but try telling that to a contractor or company owner. if you don't do there is somebody out there that will.

thats an acceptable answer Todd. (in a perfect world) but try telling that to a contractor or company owner. if you don't do there is somebody out there that will.

My only point here is it should have been discussed way before starting,by your office.All to many times the operator get caught in the middle,I agree.This should have never happend,a second mast and boom would have been a better call.These are the type things that get people hurt.

Keep in mind if you will,most of the time damage happens it doesn't show it's ugly face till much later.I pray a boom failure never happens to you,a life changing moment for sure.

Muddy, you can't be forced to do something that is unsafe and if you lose your job because you want to be safe, then you are better off not working for a company that operates that way. In due time that company will not be in business after the lawsuits that will come from a disaster that could have been avoided instead of trying to do it the cheapest and easiest way. Keep that in mind when you do another unsafe pour.

I see now who you work for.  I thought they were out of business?  Is Nathan still the boss there? 

I cant beleive the crane operator agree'd. I bet a plug and release will change his way of thinking

I just have to ask. Do you actually run all of those pumps or do you get pictures from other people because all of your pics have different pumps. Just curious

all of the pictures i send out are of jobs i have been on.

hey bigstick. nathan left that company. he works for cross in biloxi now. since you know the company maybe you can comprehend what the operators go thru on a day to day basis. it was actually terrible.

I could not stay there but about six months.  Way too much cowboys and heros for me.  Saw alot of crazy stuff going on.  Not for me.  Seriously, good luck, just be careful.  I know everybody is just trying to feed thier kids right now.  And it is tough.

http://video.concretepumping.com/videos/878/17m-boom-,-centered-rotating-system

What about using one of these?

Heyy MUDDY. I see you've got "BIGSTICKED". You also removed your pics. Be carefull what you post on this site. There are a lot of guys that think about everything is dangerous besides pooring from a single ended 5"hose. They never did anything "special" but they think they know it all. They hear its dangerous and just repeat it. (like sheep) If we'd work like bigstick we would never get a job done. Some of these guys think they are safe when they put as many as possible warning stickers on there pump and have a hard hat on.

Ok, so who has a picture of a supperboom we can use. I would like to be able to show everyone what we are talking about here.

Hey Dipstick, are you not the one that runs around bragging about putting two hundred pounds of steel off your tip hose? 

I guess your point is that if someone does something that is not safe, us older guys with lots of experience should just let it go until someone gets hurt of killed? 

Knock yourselves out fellows, be a hero to your company and the contractor who is too cheap to properly complete a job.

Just remember this, the graveyard is full of hero's and idiots.

And by the way there Special pumper, I have turned down four jobs in twenty years.  The point is there's a 99% guaranteed way to do a job without endangering yourself or others.  You just have to be able to think and pay attention.

Dipstick the name says it all, there is a difference between doing special and doing dangerous, in my twenty plus years every job I have done everybody went home safe, so yes I have earned the right to say I'm a SAFE and PROFESSIONAL concrete pump operator, and I have done special jobs shit you would probably say couldnt be done and definitely couldnt be done without tearing equipment up, so watch who your talking about most of the guys here are green not a whole lot of experience left on this site so when the experienced ones speak its for your own good so you might wanna shutup and listen,and stop thinking your superman cause I'm not your not and no one is above safety, a accident can happen to anybody especially when your doing shit that has been proven unsafe.

GOOD job

The three major tower crane manufacturers sent us letters forbidding the practice.

For holding up tremmie pipes, the same issues do not apply because the boom is holding the load straight up and down without the need for coordinating movements.  Notice that the position paper states 'to extend horizontal reach.'  Holding the weight for a vertically oriented long pipe or hose is actually encouraged and is shown in the safety manual and (at least Schwing's) operation manuals.

And some people wonder why I have no desire to get back in the business  - What happened to common sense?

''Holding the weight for a vertically oriented long pipe or hose is actually encouraged and is shown in the safety manual and (at least Schwing's) operation manuals.'' What happened to the vibrations?? And how do you lift the pipe up and down and in to the next pillar without coordinating the crane and the pump at the same time?? How come a pump and a crane can't work togetter while 2 cranes lifting extreem load can ? (I do agree that it has to be done very slow and carefull and the pump pressure has to be lower to avoid most vibratios and wild movements on the horizontal line.) But if the have investegated that the crane is almost collapsing after lifting some pipes with concrete moving throug it than who am I to say they are not right. I guess i shouldn't do it anymore than...

Ok so here is what you will see in court if you ever have a problem. This is what the lawyers will bring out to prove you were unsafe.

http://www.concretepumpers.com/pdfs/NoCraneUse.pdf

As the owner of the pump company did you show this to the Contractor? The foreman? The Crane Company?

Sorry for being such a pain in the ass todd. But when I walk around on a building site and think about what I should do to keep the people safe than I don't think about what would happen when I was in court. Thats 2 different things. I can imagine a lot of things that I would get away with in court but I would never do them because I feel they are unsafe. But maybe I should start thinking more about what could happen when I would end up in court. (which is very unlikely where I live.) I'm just afraid that when we only think about court and rules, we would start to believe that nothing can go wrong as long as we stick to the rules. (Which is not true!!!)

Nobody called you a pain in the ass Dipstick, all we want you to do is go home safe to your family and the others working around you.

I understand completely.

Bottom line is if you do something that you know is against the rules, laws, regulations ordinances you are subject to being civily and criminally liable.  Example - you drive after you are out of DOT hours and have and accident - you are toast.  You pick up something with your boom that is not allowed - you are toast.  Why do you think all those warning stickers are on the pump.  If you violate them then you are the one on the hook.

You have to ask yourself what risk are you willing to take or better yet ask yourself what type of injury is worth the risk, what is your bottom line? In your life as a pumper is it going to be ok if you kill one person? Or lame one person? Maybe its ok if just one person dies? Most all accidents are preventable. Is a broken back, broken leg or arm ok for all the risks you take? Risk equals cost the more risk you take the more it will cost you in dollars and in injuries and or loss of life. You have to ask yourself what risks will I take for the days wage, will you be able to sleep at night knowing you killed someone? That is why it upsets me to see so little dunnage used, less than the manufacture's minimums. It is a risk that is just not worth taking.

Edit done by admin. Please no need to be profane.

lol concrete pumpers. this job is definitely not for the weak. mad respect for anybody in this business.

You are right mike. But what is your number 1 priority? That everybody is safe or that you don't get in trouble when something goes wrong?

in my youth I did things I wouldnt do now, but I remember a job in a paper mill where this same scenario was the way they planned on pouring this upper deck that could not be reached , I shot it down due to safety concerns, we got cribbing to lay the pipe and hoses on and the finishers handled the hose, now I have done things that were in no means safe and I was lucky , I quit doing crazy shit before my luck ran out, its kind of like the double end hose 99.9% of the time they are fine but that .1% and someone is killed or seriously injured ,you have to live with the mental,civil, and legal consequences of your actions, the risk is way to great no matter how much money you believe you are making its not worth hurting or killing someone, these machines if ran properly and with respect are safe, but when you run WFO , do not follow safety rules and regulations eventually your luck will run out.

I have learned never to judge till one has walk in the same shoes.Each and every one of us has done things we would or would not admit.This young man just got caught into something he had no control and posted,nt really knowing what he was in for here.

Every mistake you have made I did at least once.Hopfully a lesson learned for all.

Well put.. "THE END".

Hey Many, I've heard that same quote except with a little twist. "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes." hahaha. PUMP ON! : )

Thats a even better one .

Hello everybody I was on a litle holyday .and find a nice stiky subject whitout a pic. and because I love working whit crane opps and pics I give some exemples

OMG!!!! you don't know what you just did...you are about to get crusified.

I love nails in my hands

Super doffer. I behind you all the way. Great pics!!

You are a hero F. Nice pic of K by the way! ;-) The dutch cranes are much stronger I think. Never heared of any problem with this. Or maybe in some countries the operators just don't like to do difficult stuff. just a endhose and a cup of coffee..

Thanks for posting them. Glad your back.

This is going to be the biggest hit generator so far...

Here is the ACPA and the CPMA  position on supper booms.

http://www.concretepumpers.com/pdfs/NoCraneUse.pdf

What you see is not a so called texasboom, butt a crane supported  placing boom. The diverens is that you don't have to move the boom whille pooring. 

Acoording to the acpa statement a crane only can be used as a stand alone unit but how can you explane this???

And these cranes where not only lifting this pipe .It was pulled by a digging machine with a power of 200!!! metric ton's so if you can 15 let cranes work together why not a pump and a crane???

you took the words right out of my mouth. sometimes you just gotta make it happen.

You won, I give, kill or maim anybody you want to.  I dont care anymore, just remember I told you so.

Explain this,well ok.The load in question does not affect another certified piece of equipment.It appears this pipe is being moved in accordance with guidlines of CRANE specs,not concrete pump specs.

You people "just don't get it",a perfect example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI-ENqgjQXM

What the hell has big blue got to do with this subject? Totally different situation.

As I said,some don't "get it".That whole equipment failure took less that 60 seconds,claiming 3 lives.As an ex crane/pump operator I have seen the unbielievable.

For you sir,I will make an exception and do it in colors.The idea is to prevent accidents,saving lives.Get it? saving lives!!.People that have the notion super booms/texas booms are ok are part of the problem,not solution.

For my friends that do "get it".Take a picture,contact osha,your identity will remain hidden.Shut the job down and you can quote the acpa,crane,pump manufacturers guildlines.

Be part of the solution,not the problem.Do things the safe way,an accident only takes a few seconds,as the video showed.

The diverence between big bleu and my example's is that big bleu was at his top of capicity and they forgot the wind fator.the crane's suporting the pipeline and the crane lifting my placingboom have an overcapicity of more than 15 ton's 

If the towercran get some trouble with the swingbrake and the wind take over ? It end with a broken boom on your pump or a tippedover pump... If the winch dont stopp ? It doesnt matter that the towercrane has 15 ton "overcapacity" if it brakes dont function...

so how do you stand when you connect up to a piling rig with your boom?

Exactly. Like in this case you mean? ''Holding the weight for a vertically oriented long pipe or hose is actually encouraged and is shown in the safety manual and (at least Schwing's) operation manuals.'' But than it was alowed and encouraged by the manufactorer so then its ok that your boom breaks and kils someone?? We call this measuring with 2 sizes... And by the way... when the brake of a crane doesn't work the cranedriver can still keep the boom in position.

Ok guys this whole thing is simple , it's against the rules all or most of you are arguing over something that has been proved unsafe just because you lack the knowledge or the get up and go to get the job done safely you should not try to justify your actions, everyone here with experience is telling you it's unsafe but you know it all and continue to argue , ignorance can be temporary stupid is forever , which one will you be ? I'm thinking stupid.

jj707 

Now that's what I call,words to live by